Author Topic: 22 to 1  (Read 1797 times)

Scout26

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22 to 1
« on: December 16, 2017, 11:48:18 AM »
Remember when President Trump promised to removed 2 regulations for every new 1 added ??  Well, he lied.  He's manage to eliminate 22 for every new one added. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/12/14/president_trump_cuts_red_tape_on_deregulation_winning_22-1.html
At the end of 2016 there were 95,894 pages in the federal register.  We won't knows how many pages have been eliminated until 31 Dec.  But what is it about Democrats that they LOVE making rules...(Yes, I know scratch any liberal and a fascist bleeds.)


Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

230RN

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Re: 22 to 1
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2017, 12:19:02 PM »
Quote
But what is it about Democrats that they LOVE making rules...(Yes, I know scratch any liberal and a fascist bleeds.)

The same reason people want to get on Homeowners Association boards.  Control, control, control, do it my way.  While the societal contract requires that certain things be regulated to a certain degree, once a controlling personality gets that authority, it's kitty bar the door and that "degree" becomes limitless.

There's a phrase for that, if I can remember it... something about "power corrupts."

That's why I often say, tongue in cheek, that a desire for public office should be an automatic disqualification for public office.

Terry, 230RN

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just Warren

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Re: 22 to 1
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2017, 01:41:02 PM »
Alright alright alright!
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just Warren

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Re: 22 to 1
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2017, 04:33:32 PM »
I'd like to see legislation that would allow companies affected by regulations to be able to sue the enforcing agency and if the company wins that regulation goes away.

And I would set the bar low for the harm the company has to prove.

That way you'd have the regs being attacked from the top and the bottom.

Meanwhile the budgets of the agencies would be reduced, employees being bought out, departments closed or merged, their unions getting decertified, and everyone inside losing their immunity from lawsuits or charges if the screw up.

So the total squeeze on the agencies would make it very difficult to do anything.

These are just some Christmas wishes...
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Fjolnirsson

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Re: 22 to 1
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2017, 05:10:40 PM »
That's a fantastic idea.
Hi.

mtnbkr

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Re: 22 to 1
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2017, 05:24:04 PM »
I'd like to see legislation that would allow companies affected by regulations to be able to sue the enforcing agency and if the company wins that regulation goes away.

So...

EPA passes a regulation saying Monsanto (or any other chem company) can't dump their waste into the nearest river.  This obviously affects their bottom line because now they have to spend money to properly dispose of this waste.  They sue, but do so in a place sympathetic to their "struggle" and win.  Voila, the reg is now gone.

Chris

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Re: 22 to 1
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2017, 05:32:02 PM »
The company can still be sued by downstream users. Also that may not be a court case the company could win a judge or jury would rightfully call shenanigans on such a ploy and not grant Monsanto the win.

Plus would they even want to fight this particular reg? Imagine the negative PR that would generate. Even in a friendly court.

In any event if the river was owned by an actual someone, not just the abstraction we call government, that person or company would obviously have the right to sue for damages the same as any other property owner. So that's a direction we need to move in as well.

To get this passed I would compromise on environmental stuff as I'm really looking for the costs of employing people to be reduced and thus promote more employment. Labor laws are a job killer and those would be my priority. But there are a host of other regs that don't deal with the environment that need to go, and there are regs that supposedly are pro-environment that ain't really and those too need to go. But if you want to keep the biggies like riparian protection, ok.
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mtnbkr

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Re: 22 to 1
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2017, 07:55:24 AM »
The company can still be sued by downstream users. Also that may not be a court case the company could win a judge or jury would rightfully call shenanigans on such a ploy and not grant Monsanto the win.
You've not paid much attention to how these things play out in the past, have you?  You also assume the effects are obvious enough to take the fight to Monsanto or that the effected have the resources to do much about it.  It's an age old story...

Plus would they even want to fight this particular reg? Imagine the negative PR that would generate. Even in a friendly court.
Companies do all sorts of things that don't look good to outsiders but have real benefit to the business.  Public opinion has a short attention span.

In any event if the river was owned by an actual someone, not just the abstraction we call government, that person or company would obviously have the right to sue for damages the same as any other property owner. So that's a direction we need to move in as well.
Who owns the river when it spans multiple properties?  Who is the affected party?  Again, you assume someone has the resources and understands who is responsible in order to bring this to court.

To get this passed I would compromise on environmental stuff as I'm really looking for the costs of employing people to be reduced and thus promote more employment. Labor laws are a job killer and those would be my priority. But there are a host of other regs that don't deal with the environment that need to go, and there are regs that supposedly are pro-environment that ain't really and those too need to go. But if you want to keep the biggies like riparian protection, ok.
I don't disagree in general terms, but we need to avoid throwing the baby out with the bath water.  Just because a regulation isn't business-friendly or impacts employment doesn't automatically make it bad.  While we like to think the invisible hand will protect the little people from abuses of corporations, it's simply not true.  There needs to be a mechanism that prevents abuses from taking place or provides the power and influence to mitigate them.  What we need to do is avoid or remove the arbitrary or preferential regulations that benefit nobody or do not have a basis in concrete science or documented fact.

And we might WANT labor laws, laws that, for example, prevent companies from importing labor to the detriment of American workers...

Chris

230RN

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Re: 22 to 1
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2017, 11:25:17 AM »
The same reason people want to get on Homeowners Association boards.  Control, control, control, do it my way.  While the societal contract requires that certain things be regulated to a certain degree, once a controlling personality gets that authority, it's kitty bar the door and that "degree" becomes limitless.

There's a phrase for that, if I can remember it... something about "power corrupts."

That's why I often say, tongue in cheek, that a desire for public office should be an automatic disqualification for public office.

Terry, 230RN

Famous quote:
https://youtu.be/2nf_bu-kBr4

Let's not forget that part of it.  But the real problem is the second part of that statement regarding the "controlling personality."

The person with "a whim of iron," as one of my profs once put it.

Terry
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 11:51:44 AM by 230RN »

just Warren

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Re: 22 to 1
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2017, 03:06:44 PM »
Quote
You've not paid much attention to how these things play out in the past, have you?

Who owns the river when it spans multiple properties?  Who is the affected party?  Again, you assume someone has the resources and understands who is responsible in order to bring this to court.

There needs to be a mechanism that prevents abuses from taking place or provides the power and influence to mitigate them.

What I do know from my readings on the issue is that in other places at other times river water rights have been handled privately and well. One example I wish I could find now comes from now Germany where a polluted river was cleaned up very quickly once property rights were assigned.

Just recently (last ten years or so) a river was perpetually low because the incentives of the people with water rights and those wanting to use it were misaligned. This was changed and the river started flowing again and everyone benefited.

It's worked before, it'll work again.

As for the mechanism of power and influence we need to do better than these guys:

http://www.newsweek.com/photo-shows-black-sewage-spewing-epa-water-fountain-750112

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2014/06/25/epa-employees-asked-to-stop-pooping-in-hallway-poop-bandit-may-still-be-on-the-loose/?utm_term=.81b6a1c5ada4

http://www.newsweek.com/epa-causes-massive-colorado-spill-1-million-gallons-mining-waste-turns-river-361019
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