Author Topic: Swatting Arrest  (Read 21977 times)

cordex

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #125 on: January 10, 2018, 12:12:57 PM »
Are you saying there are hundreds of thousands of situations where a CCWer shoots someone because they moved their hand toward their waist?  I doubt that.
There are hundreds or thousands of similar situations every year that normal people get caught up in.  What percentage of those people are prosecuted?
The statutes covering justifiable shootings as they relate to police and non-police are usually pretty similar.  Would a reasonable person have been in fear for their lives or the lives of others in a given scenario?  If yes, the shoot is typically considered justified.  If no, it is typically not.  Sure, sometimes there are other factors which can play a role and the usual "but, but, but, TEJAS!", but that is the basic standard.

The major difference is that police are required as part of their job to interpose themselves into situations where most of us would not be expected to do so.  Thus, saying "well, if a CCWer were hunkered down with a firearm trained on a doorway commanding the occupant to come out in response to a 911 call ..." is sort of hard to address in a reasonable fashion since the scenario is so far fetched.

However, there are plenty of similar enough cases where, for instance, a homeowner wakes to find someone skulking about their darkened home, kills the "intruder" whom they thought were making a bad move only to find the deceased were unarmed and actually a drunk neighbor or a family member or something.  Yes, an innocent person is dead, but in the shooter's shoes another reasonable person would likely have done the same thing, so they are not convicted.

MechAg94

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #126 on: January 10, 2018, 02:15:10 PM »
The statutes covering justifiable shootings as they relate to police and non-police are usually pretty similar.  Would a reasonable person have been in fear for their lives or the lives of others in a given scenario?  If yes, the shoot is typically considered justified.  If no, it is typically not.  Sure, sometimes there are other factors which can play a role and the usual "but, but, but, TEJAS!", but that is the basic standard.

The major difference is that police are required as part of their job to interpose themselves into situations where most of us would not be expected to do so.  Thus, saying "well, if a CCWer were hunkered down with a firearm trained on a doorway commanding the occupant to come out in response to a 911 call ..." is sort of hard to address in a reasonable fashion since the scenario is so far fetched.

However, there are plenty of similar enough cases where, for instance, a homeowner wakes to find someone skulking about their darkened home, kills the "intruder" whom they thought were making a bad move only to find the deceased were unarmed and actually a drunk neighbor or a family member or something.  Yes, an innocent person is dead, but in the shooter's shoes another reasonable person would likely have done the same thing, so they are not convicted.
Which is the long way of saying, no, there aren't that many incidents and police and non-police are treated differently if not by the letter of the law then certainly in practice.
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Ben

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #128 on: January 13, 2018, 06:46:04 PM »
"Barriss has a history of making 'swatting' calls, police said. He was arrested on Dec. 29 in Los Angeles."

<long string of curses>

Terry


T.O.M.

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #129 on: January 13, 2018, 06:47:10 PM »
Makes sense legally...in the commission of an offense, a person died as a proximate result of the act.  Be interested to watch it play out through the courts.
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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #130 on: January 13, 2018, 06:58:44 PM »
I wish there were some way for the other SWATtees to exact some justice for their experiences and expenses.


Firethorn

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #131 on: January 14, 2018, 04:46:48 AM »
Looking at about 11 years for the maximum sentence in that case. 

https://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/news/man-accused-in-fatal-swatting-case-faces-manslaughter-charge-w515401

Factors include that he has a previous criminal record.  Which means that all of this will tend to pile up for heftier sentences.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #132 on: January 14, 2018, 05:17:51 AM »
Looking at about 11 years for the maximum sentence in that case. 

https://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/news/man-accused-in-fatal-swatting-case-faces-manslaughter-charge-w515401

Factors include that he has a previous criminal record.  Which means that all of this will tend to pile up for heftier sentences.

I'm pleased to note that the officer who fired the shot hasn't been cleared yet. I still think it was a bad shoot.
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just Warren

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #133 on: April 13, 2018, 03:19:20 PM »
Cop cleared.

As I saw in the comments on another site: If the DA says this cop's reaction was reasonable does that mean the reactions of those that didn't fire were unreasonable? If it was so obvious that this resident was such an immediate danger why didn't the other cops shoot? Maybe they should be fired.

As to the swatter why not charge him with 1st degree murder as well as a bunch of other lesser charges like attempted murder for all the other folks in the house and see if you can get a conviction on 1st degree murder and then see how it gets handled on appeal. If you lose out on the murder count you still have the other charges to put and keep him in jail with. Of course, hopefully, you'll have a judge that wants to send a message and will set the max sentence for the lesser crimes.

If the murder conviction sticks then you've sent a very powerful message to swatters everywhere.
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dogmush

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #134 on: April 13, 2018, 03:26:28 PM »
Lesson learned.

If you see flashing lights outside, put on body armor.

just Warren

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #135 on: May 25, 2018, 01:45:45 PM »
Same moron who called in the swatting attack called in a bomb threat on the FCC.

I don't think he is going to be seeing the outside of a prison for a long, long while.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #136 on: November 14, 2018, 06:18:15 PM »
Thread necro to update...

Plead guilty to 51 counts in a plea bargain. 20 years.

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Hawkmoon

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #137 on: November 14, 2018, 06:32:28 PM »
Thread necro to update...

Plead guilty to 51 counts in a plea bargain. 20 years.


51 counts? The dirtbag got the deal of the century.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #138 on: November 14, 2018, 06:45:22 PM »
Thread necro to update...

Plead guilty to 51 counts in a plea bargain. 20 years.

Brad

So with libtard lenient judges he'll serve what, another 18 months?
 
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Firethorn

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #139 on: November 14, 2018, 06:47:01 PM »
News article on the sentencing:

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/14/667683248/man-who-made-fatal-swatting-hoax-call-pleads-guilty-to-51-charges

Quote
Prosecuting U.S. Attorney Stephen McAllister told The Wichita Eagle he will recommend that Barriss be sentenced to 20 years in prison, providing he writes apology letters to police, dispatchers and the family of Andrew Finch, a 28-year-old father of two who was shot by police who responded to the hoax call in December.

Per this, this is a recommendation, not the actual sentence, which will be handed down in January.

MechAg94

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #140 on: November 14, 2018, 07:49:48 PM »
At the end...
Quote
The police officer who shot Finch did not face charges.

"What gives the cops the right to open fire?" the victim's mother, Lisa Finch, said in January. "That cop murdered my son over a false report."

Similar question in my mind.  Should police believe an emergency call like this and charge in assuming it is real?  How much leeway do they have to charge in and be the hero based on a verbal report over the phone?  It doesn't even have to be a false report for bad things to happen.  


http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=56428.0
This was a different but similar case where the same question applies.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 08:07:29 PM by MechAg94 »
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MechAg94

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #141 on: November 14, 2018, 08:18:04 PM »
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #142 on: November 14, 2018, 08:23:20 PM »
On the other side of my question, there are probably a bunch of examples of police stopping bad things from happening by showing up quick and taking quick action (mass shooter situations come to mind).  In my mind, most situations police arrive at the situation is right there for the police to see.  The problem in this case came when there isn't anything obvious to see, but they proceed with the assumption the call is correct.  

This is another one that is a little different.  
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=58699.0


It also makes me think harder about reinforcing my outside doors and windows and making sure I have security cameras so I don't have to open a curtain.
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Strings

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #143 on: November 15, 2018, 10:08:18 AM »
My issue here is the original call by the swatter. How often does a criminal call from the scene, calmly explaining they have already killed one,  and have plans on torching the scene with more victims in place?
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #144 on: November 15, 2018, 05:39:54 PM »
I'm still curious how the dispatcher who received the call DIDN'T know that the call wasn't coming from a local point of origin? I've heard of "spoofing" the number, but how can an ordinary person spoof a number well enough that it fools the police call center?
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #145 on: November 15, 2018, 06:30:35 PM »
All it takes is a little bit of software and some knowledge.
As far as fooling the police, all they get is what the phone system sends them. If the spoofer  is able to send bogus ANI data that is what the 911 center receives.

http://www.tech-faq.com/ani-automatic-number-identification.html

I do almost nothing on the 911 side of the house so I'm not sure what data the 911 centers are using. If they are using CID data, which would be *expletive deleted*ing stupid, it is even easier to fake that.
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Re: Swatting Arrest
« Reply #146 on: November 20, 2018, 11:10:50 AM »
Quote from: RoadKingLarry link=topic=56381.msg1185026#msg1185026
I do almost nothing on the 911 side of the house so I'm not sure what data the 911 centers are using. If they are using CID data, which would be *expletive deleted*ing stupid, it is even easier to fake that.

Never did  911 systems, but I've dealt with a couple of PBX systems set up specifically to pass both the full CID string (with backspace characters written out to reveal and defeat an old number-hiding kludge) & ANI to the end user's screen. If LE doesn't collect at least that much, some people need beatings.