Tell me again why we allow these people to immigrate

[Hawkmoon]

Nigerian couple in Texas falsify visa application, "hire" a nanny from Nigeria to take care of their kids in Texas, then treat the nanny like a slave for two years.

http://www.newser.com/article/80df8427438e4ab0b0340ac6d500a06a/texas-couple-ordered-to-pay-enslaved-nanny-121000.html

Seven months in the slammer isn't enough. They should each have to spend two years at hard labor.

[MechAg94]

At least they should be in prison as long as the person they kept in slavery. 

[HankB]

To answer the question in the thread title - we allow these kinds of people to immigrate for one very simple reason: it's a good bet that they're reliable votes for the Democratic party.

At least they should be in prison as long as the person they kept in slavery. 

Agree with this. ^^^^^

[cordex]

So, the woman who was brought here on a fraudulent visa and then enslaved ... should we deport her for being here illegally?  Let her stay until she can get her paperwork sorted out?  Something else?

[MechAg94]

So, the woman who was brought here on a fraudulent visa and then enslaved ... should we deport her for being here illegally?  Let her stay until she can get her paperwork sorted out?  Something else?

Yes, deport her.  She wouldn't have been let in without the fraudulent visa in the first place.  

However, you might let her stay on a temporary visa long enough to sue the couple for everything they are worth.  I tend to consider people using Latin American immigrants for cheap labor to be very similar and I have never liked it. 

[230RN]

To answer the question in the thread title - we allow these kinds of people to immigrate for one very simple reason: it's a good bet that they're reliable votes for the Democratic party.

Ding ding ding!  But that's got to be racist.  Or fascist. Or something, anything, negative.  Like the truth.  Or realism.  Something bad like that.

[Hawkmoon]

I'm in good (or bad, depending) company. The President agrees with me.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-attacks-protections-for-immigrants-from-shithole-countries-in-oval-office-meeting/2018/01/11/bfc0725c-f711-11e7-91af-31ac729add94_story.html?utm_term=.ca1080192738

“Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?”

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[230RN]

I have a deep concern that all the PC folkery will gnash their teeth down to little nubbins.  <snif>  

[DittoHead]

And here I thought merit based immigration was going to be about the merits of the individual, not the country.  

[makattak]

And here I thought merit based immigration was going to be about the merits of the individual, not the country.  

His statement says absolutely nothing about merit-based immigration. It was said in response to trying to continue a lottery for individuals from countries regardless of their merit.

There's much to rightfully criticize Trump about¹, but your attempt at criticism is wholly off-base.


1: I do not do so here, because I can't spare this man. He fights.

[DittoHead]

His statement says absolutely nothing about merit-based immigration.

That's kind of my point. He's focused on what countries they're coming from.

most of the outrage that has greeted the report has been directed, as it should be, against the idea that we should discourage immigration from places that are poor or badly governed. American immigration policy has usually not followed that principle. The skills-based reform of legal immigration that Trump has previously endorsed would not discriminate in this fashion: It would welcome highly skilled people leaving such places.

[HankB]

And here I thought merit based immigration was going to be about the merits of the individual, not the country.  

I have no objection to admitting (for example) a capable astrophysicist or a skilled neurosurgeon from anywhere, even places like Somalia, Haiti, Angola, or Bangladesh.

[makattak]

That's kind of my point. He's focused on what countries they're coming from.

No, he's not. You're imputing things that were not in the discussion.

Reportedly, it was about letting people in from those countries, simply for being from those countries. It's about NON-merit based immigration.

You and your ilk are focused on the countries.

[DittoHead]

Reportedly, it was about letting people in from those countries, simply for being from those countries. It's about NON-merit based immigration.

That is what the democrats were arguing for. His response was basically - "we don't need those people, lets get more people from Norway".
Sorry but that's not arguing for merit based immigration either. Still about the country, just a different country.

[BobR]

I don't really care if he said what is reported or not. Leaked by an aide, if you want to leak information then grow some balls and own it or it is subject to immediate dismissal.

BTW, those countries he mentioned are shitholes, along with many more. I have been in a few that wouldn't even qualify as a shithole, the people are uneducated, menial laborers if they even have a job and suddenly they hit the lottery and get to come to America with no skills, or education and we expect them to succeed without sucking on the .gov teat. BS.

I would love to immigrate to New Zealand or Australia when I retire but I have no skills to take with me other than I am retired, that door is slammed on me faster than you can say NO. We should do the same as a country. Ask immigrants what they can bring to us, not what can our country give you.

bob

[Hawkmoon]

I would love to immigrate to New Zealand or Australia when I retire but I have no skills to take with me other than I am retired, that door is slammed on me faster than you can say NO. We should do the same as a country. Ask immigrants what they can bring to us, not what can our country give you.

^^^ This is it in a nutshell. The entire world seems to think that the only country that should be required to accept uneducated, unqualified, unemployable immigrants from every "shithole" place on earth is the United States. Yet other countries, like Australia, New Zealand, and others have had merit-based immigration policies for as long as I can remember. It's not even about being educated. Maybe I'm a Ph.D. in astrophysics. If Australia doesn't have a need for astrophysicists ... I can't emigrate to Australia no matter how smart I am or how many degrees I might have.

I've commented multiple times before that a huge number of "budget" type hotels (Motel 6, Econo-Lodge, etc) seem to be run by Pakistanis. That's not just me ... I had a cousin (since deceased) who was a hotel owner in Scottsdale, AZ. My late wife and I visited him after he had sold his last hotel. He felt he had gotten out just in time. He's the one who pointed out that so many hotels now are run by Pakistanis ("and they're all named Patel," he said. Truer than you might think!), and one of his complaints is that Americans can't compete with them because they bring in large extended families and have a bunch of kids working under the table, doing the chambermaid and other jobs that everyone else pays employees to do.

Around here, it seems that most of the Quik-Mart and 7-11 type convenience stores are run by either Pakistanis or Arabs. (Except in the Hispanic neighborhoods, where they're all Hispanics and nobody even tries to speak English). Why do we allow this? There are thousands of Americans without jobs who could stand behind the counter in a Quik-Mart and sell lottery tickets. Why are we importing foreigners to take those jobs?

It doesn't make sense. (Unless you're a Democrat, looking to increase the voter rolls.)

[KD5NRH]

I have no objection to admitting (for example) a capable astrophysicist or a skilled neurosurgeon from anywhere, even places like Somalia, Haiti, Angola, or Bangladesh.

But it's even worse for them; my ex wife worked with two women who had advanced degrees; one from Belarus, the other from Oaxaca, one already married to an American and the other got engaged after about two years here.  Both had been here for more than a year at the time I met them, were more fluent in English than the typical American and were from families wealthy enough that they really didn't gain anything by coming here to work for what amounted to an overgrown translation service.  (They called it multilingual business integration, but they outsourced basically everything beyond translation and live interpreting services.)  Both said the ridiculous crap they had to deal with kept them from getting better jobs because they were constantly having to take full days off work to go fill out another form (in person, because it couldn't even just be notarized - it had to be witnessed by the case worker) to meet a new requirement or renew something or any of a dozen other tasks. 
Oksana had a MS in mechanical engineering, and estimated that it was costing her ~$60k/yr in missed opportunities for better employment because of the immigration process.  I'm fairly certain if she could have convinced her husband to emigrate to Belarus, she would have gone back in a heartbeat, made more money and had a much better standard of living.  As she put it, if she just wanted to sit around and pop out babies, or work at McDonalds, all the trips to the immigration office wouldn't have been such an issue.

[Ben]

It appears Lindsey Graham criticized Trump while forgetting what he himself said in the past:

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2018/01/13/awkward-senator-who-slammed-trump-for-sthole-remark-should-sit-this-one-out/

[Hawkmoon]

The Internet has a long memory ...

Maybe it matters which ___hole country you're talking about.

[MechAg94]

But it's even worse for them; my ex wife worked with two women who had advanced degrees; one from Belarus, the other from Oaxaca, one already married to an American and the other got engaged after about two years here.  Both had been here for more than a year at the time I met them, were more fluent in English than the typical American and were from families wealthy enough that they really didn't gain anything by coming here to work for what amounted to an overgrown translation service.  (They called it multilingual business integration, but they outsourced basically everything beyond translation and live interpreting services.)  Both said the ridiculous crap they had to deal with kept them from getting better jobs because they were constantly having to take full days off work to go fill out another form (in person, because it couldn't even just be notarized - it had to be witnessed by the case worker) to meet a new requirement or renew something or any of a dozen other tasks. 
Oksana had a MS in mechanical engineering, and estimated that it was costing her ~$60k/yr in missed opportunities for better employment because of the immigration process.  I'm fairly certain if she could have convinced her husband to emigrate to Belarus, she would have gone back in a heartbeat, made more money and had a much better standard of living.  As she put it, if she just wanted to sit around and pop out babies, or work at McDonalds, all the trips to the immigration office wouldn't have been such an issue.

I have talked to an engineer in our company that married a lady from Venezuela.  It has been several years since I talked to him, but they didn't have anything good to say about immigration services and were upset that they had to constantly submit more paperwork.  At that time, they had been married for some years and had two kids, but immigration treated them like it was an arranged marriage or something.   

[Hawkmoon]

I'm reviving this thread to quote an article sent to me by a fellow Vietnam veteran, a Seabee who served (I think) two deployments to sunny southeast Asia.

What I Learned in the Peace Corps in Africa: Trump Is Right

    By Karin McQuillan

    Three weeks after college, I flew to Senegal, West Africa, to run a community center in a rural town. Life was placid, with no danger, except to your health. That danger was considerable, because it was, in the words of the Peace Corps doctor, "a fecalized environment."

    In plain English: s--- is everywhere. People defecate on the open ground, and the feces is blown with the dust – onto you, your clothes, your food, the water. He warned us the first day of training: do not even touch water.  Human feces carries parasites that bore through your skin and cause organ failure.

    Never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined that a few decades later, liberals would be pushing the lie that Western civilization is no better than a third-world country. Or would teach two generations of our kids that loving your own culture and wanting to preserve it are racism.

    Last time I was in Paris, I saw a beautiful African woman in a grand boubou have her child defecate on the sidewalk next to Notre Dame Cathedral.  The French police officer, ten steps from her, turned his head not to see. I have seen. I am not turning my head and pretending unpleasant things are not true.

        Senegal was not a hellhole. Very poor people can lead happy, meaningful lives in their own cultures' terms. But they are not our terms. The excrement is the least of it. Our basic ideas of human relations, right and wrong, are incompatible.

        As a twenty-one-year-old starting out in the Peace Corps, I loved Senegal. In fact, I was euphoric. I quickly made friends and had an adopted family. I relished the feeling of the brotherhood of man. People were open, willing to share their lives and, after they knew you, their innermost thoughts.

    The longer I lived there, the more I understood: it became blindingly obvious that the Senegalese are not the same as us. The truths we hold to be self-evident are not evident to the Senegalese. How could they be? Their reality is totally different. You can't understand anything in Senegal using American terms.

        Take something as basic as family. Family was a few hundred people, extending out to second and third cousins. All the men in one generation were called "father." Senegalese are Muslim, with up to four wives. Girls had their clitorises cut off at puberty. (I witnessed this, at what I thought was going to be a nice coming-of-age ceremony, like a bat mitzvah or confirmation.) Sex, I was told, did not include kissing. Love and friendship in marriage were Western ideas. Fidelity was not a thing. Married women would have sex for a few cents to have cash for the market.

        What I did witness every day was that women were worked half to death. Wives raised the food and fed their own children, did the heavy labor of walking miles to gather wood for the fire, drew water from the well or public faucet, pounded grain with heavy hand-held pestles, lived in their own huts, and had conjugal visits from their husbands on a rotating basis with their co-wives. Their husbands lazed in the shade of the trees.

    Yet family was crucial to people there in a way Americans cannot comprehend. The Ten Commandments were not disobeyed – they were unknown. The value system was the exact opposite. You were supposed to steal everything you can to give to your own relatives. There are some Westernized Africans who try to rebel against the system. They fail.

        We hear a lot about the kleptocratic elites of Africa. The kleptocracy extends through the whole society. My town had a medical clinic donated by international agencies. The medicine was stolen by the medical workers and sold to the local store. If you were sick and didn't have money, drop dead.  That was normal.

        So here in the States, when we discovered that my 98-year-old father's Muslim health aide from Nigeria had stolen his clothes and wasn't bathing him, I wasn't surprised. It was familiar.

        In Senegal, corruption ruled, from top to bottom. Go to the post office, and the clerk would name an outrageous price for a stamp. After paying the bribe, you still didn't know it if it would be mailed or thrown out. That was normal.

        One of my most vivid memories was from the clinic. One day, as the wait grew hotter in the 110-degree heat, an old woman two feet from the medical aides – who were chatting in the shade of a mango tree instead of working – collapsed to the ground. They turned their heads so as not to see her and kept talking. She lay there in the dirt. Callousness to the sick was normal.

        Americans think it is a universal human instinct to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. It's not. It seems natural to us because we live in a Bible-based Judeo-Christian culture. We think the Protestant work ethic is universal. It's not. My town was full of young men doing nothing. They were waiting for a government job. There was no private enterprise. Private business was not illegal, just impossible, given the nightmare of a third-world bureaucratic kleptocracy. It is also incompatible with Senegalese insistence on taking care of relatives. All the little stores in Senegal were owned by Mauritanians. If a Senegalese wanted to run a little store, he'd go to another country. The reason? Your friends and relatives would ask you for stuff for free, and you would have to say yes. End of your business. You are not allowed to be a selfish individual and say no to relatives. The result: Everyone has nothing.

        The more I worked there and visited government officials doing absolutely nothing, the more I realized that no one in Senegal had the idea that a job means work. A job is something given to you by a relative. It provides the place where you steal everything to give back to your family.

            I couldn't wait to get home. So why would I want to bring Africa here? Non-Westerners do not magically become American by arriving on our shores with a visa.

            For the rest of my life, I enjoyed the greatest gift of the Peace Corps: I love and treasure America more than ever. I take seriously my responsibility to defend our culture and our country and pass on the American heritage to the next generation. African problems are made worse by our aid efforts. Senegal is full of smart, capable people. They will eventually solve their own country's problems. They will do it on their terms, not ours. The solution is not to bring Africans here.

            We are lectured by Democrats that we must privilege third-world immigration by the hundred million with chain migration. They tell us we must end America as a white, Western, Judeo-Christian, capitalist nation – to prove we are not racist. I don't need to prove a thing. Leftists want open borders because they resent whites, resent Western achievements, and hate America. They want to destroy America as we know it. As President Trump asked, why would we do that?

            We have the right to choose what kind of country to live in. I was happy to donate a year of my life as a young woman to help the poor Senegalese. I am not willing to donate my country.

[MillCreek]

^^^A very interesting read.

[Angel Eyes]

Link to article:  http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/01/what_i_learned_in_peace_corps_in_africa_trump_is_right.html