Flu Vaccines

[charby]

Well, NIH, which is staffed by people who know more about it than any of us here, thinks it will happen.

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/universal-influenza-vaccine-research
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/universal-flu-shot-may-be-nearing-reality

A lot of "ifs" in the second article, even from the researchers.

[K Frame]

The flu shot is like trying to hit a moving target with an unguided missile. 

 

Don't you have a shithole to attend to?

[Hawkmoon]

Well, NIH, which is staffed by people who know more about it than any of us here, thinks it will happen.

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/universal-influenza-vaccine-research
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/universal-flu-shot-may-be-nearing-reality

They have to say that in order to justify throwing more money at people who get paid for "researching" the problem. So we'll throw a few more million dllars into ten years more research, at the end of which they'll admit that it can't be done. Which we, and they, know already.

What I know is that every year I've allowed the VA hospital to give me a flu shot ... I've gotten the flu. This year was no exception. They claim the shot can't give you the flu, but every year I've had the shot I've gotten the flu. The years I didn't get a shot, I didn't get the flu. Anecdotal, but enough to give me pause.

[K Frame]

The problem isn't that the flu shot is giving you the flu.

The problem is when you get the flu shot you feel as if you're invincible.

Stop licking doorknobs after you get the flu shot and you'll be fine.



I tend to get the flu shot most years. Never got around to it this year, and from the sounds it likely wouldn't do much good were I to.

[charby]

Well, NIH, which is staffed by people who know more about it than any of us here, thinks it will happen.

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/universal-influenza-vaccine-research
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/universal-flu-shot-may-be-nearing-reality

I figured it would have to be a protein that is found in every variant of a said virus. As mentioned in the article the common protein is not one that is normally detected by the immune system.

The Pandora's box is if you trigger to cause a new immune response, what else are you going to wake up? Certain proteins cause me to autoimmune, and it has gotten worse over the years. Doctors think I got bit by a tick several years ago and proteins from the tick bite has caused my immune system to go into overdrive when I eat beef or dried beans.

[RoadKingLarry]

So my wife has her cardiologist appointment this morning.
Low single digit temps and a few slick spots on the road,  she didn't want to drive.
I'm sitting in the crowded waiting room where they've got the heat cranked up to "equatorial desert" and I think I'm the only one here not hacking a lung out.
*expletive deleted*ck I hate being around people.

[Scout26]

I'm given the flu shot every year.  I really don't have much choice.   I have not gotten the flu in many years.  Mostly because I have to constantly practice thorough infection prevention.  I've had peritonitis too many times already.   Everyone is surprised that I can still do Peritoneal Dialysis and that I'm not doing Hemo Dialysis.

[charby]

I've had peritonitis too many times already. 

That sucks... I can't add anymore.

[Jamisjockey]

The problem isn't that the flu shot is giving you the flu.

The problem is when you get the flu shot you feel as if you're invincible.

Stop licking doorknobs after you get the flu shot and you'll be fine.



I tend to get the flu shot most years. Never got around to it this year, and from the sounds it likely wouldn't do much good were I to.

 

[230RN]

Charby:

I figured it would have to be a protein that is found in every variant of a said virus. As mentioned in the article the common protein is not one that is normally detected by the immune system.

That kinda tickled something I've been wondering about for a couple of years.

Here, we've been designing, essentially, "weak" viruses to wake up the immune system, and the viruses change, so we can't keep up with it on an immunity basis.

Why can't we develop a viricide, as in a poison, that affects something common to all the related and mutated viruses, like plant-specific pesticides.

I mean, we've got pesticides/herbicides that are specific to broad-leaf weeds, but not, like grass and such.

Seems we've been running down the wrong track on this, and colds, for decades.  Why can't we develop a "coldicide" and a "fluicide" specifically poisonous to something in those viruses?

As Charby seems to have touched on.

Terry, 230RN

[charby]

Charby:

That kinda tickled something I've been wondering about for a couple of years.

Here, we've been designing, essentially, "weak" viruses to wake up the immune system, and the viruses change, so we can't keep up with it on an immunity basis.

Why can't we develop a viricide, as in a poison, that affects something common to all the related and mutated viruses, like plant-specific pesticides.

I mean, we've got pesticides/herbicides that are specific to broad-leaf weeds, but not, like grass and such.

Seems we've been running down the wrong track on this, and colds, for decades.  Why can't we develop a "coldicide" and a "fluicide" specifically poisonous to something in those viruses?

As Charby seems to have touched on.

Terry, 230RN

If you apply a high enough rate of broadleaf herbicide on grasses, you will kill the grasses. It's not that they are immune to the herbicide, just applied at a rate that is not lethal to the grasses but is to the broadleaves.

Viruses don't have cellular respiration like plants, animals and bacteria do. So it would be hard to find a mode of action to stop a virus in a living cell. Outside of a body, it normally fairly easy to kill most viruses with contact chemicals, like bleach. Or even using UV light. 

Here is a Cliff notes read for you.

https://www.cliffsnotes.com/study-guides/biology/biology/prokaryotes-and-viruses/viruses

You need some sort of chemical that can stop reproduction of viruses and not effect the reproduction of the healthy cells.

[dogmush]

Off the top of my head, with no research:

Virus' are very simple creatures.  There is still some debate as to whether they count as alive.  They are basically just strands of DNA or RNA that, when they get in an appropriate type of cell, cause themselves to be replicated.

We already have a variety of compounds that can interact with DNA (or RNA) and cause it to not work right with cell structures and replicate poorly.  Many carcinogens work that way. I suspect that the effects of taking those compounds are worse then the flu shot.

* Side note:  A little research shows that there ARE indeed some virucides (as differentiated from antivirals) that destroy/deactivate virus' without killing mammals.  There are even some broad spectrum ones.  Lysol is one.  It seems like some research in broad spectrum virucides is ongoing.  This link talks about one of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scytovirin 

ETA:  Also this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanovirin-N   Tobacco could save us all!!

[Scout26]

IIRC, they consist of a protein coat and then RNA (or was it DNA) inside.  It latches onto a cell inject the RNA (or was is DNA) which hijacks that cell and turns it into a replication factory. 

So in order to destroy the virii you'd have to destroy the protein coat (which would also kill regular cells) Or figure out a way to damage the RNA (or was it DNA) of the Virii, which would also damage the RNA (or was it DNA) of regular cells.   Which is why vaccination is so important.  You're body then can produce the anti-bodies to defeat a larger infection.

[lee n. field]

Lest we forget: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic

[charby]

Lest we forget: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic

Still a matter of when, could be this year, could be 10 years from now.

[Firethorn]

IIRC, they consist of a protein coat and then RNA (or was it DNA) inside.  It latches onto a cell inject the RNA (or was is DNA) which hijacks that cell and turns it into a replication factory.  

So in order to destroy the virii you'd have to destroy the protein coat (which would also kill regular cells) Or figure out a way to damage the RNA (or was it DNA) of the Virii, which would also damage the RNA (or was it DNA) of regular cells.   Which is why vaccination is so important.  You're body then can produce the anti-bodies to defeat a larger infection.

In a lot of cases what happens is that the antibody latches onto the viral particle and marks it as 'too be eaten' by the immune system's killer cells.

The really neat ones also interfere with the viral particle being able to attach and inject its payload, such that a viral particle with a antibody on it is non-infectious.  And waiting to be eaten.  

RNA viruses are especially nasty due to reverse-transcriptase or such.  The Virus will actually write itself into the cell's DNA, to be triggered some semi-random time later.

That's why HIV and Hepatitis B are so hard to get rid of.

[TechMan]

Lest we forget: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic

[RoadKingLarry]

Still a matter of when, could be this year, could be 10 years from now.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition Influenza...



dammit, beat again...