Author Topic: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns  (Read 3683 times)

MillCreek

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The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« on: February 08, 2018, 11:29:52 AM »
From looking at the Shot Show coverage, it looks as if just about every domestic shotgun manufacturer now has one of the 14 inch barrel non-NFA shotguns or 'firearms'.  I wonder how these are to shoot.  I have a 12 gauge Ithaca 37 with an 18 inch barrel that has the Pachmayr rubber pistol grip/forearm on it, and it is an experience to shoot.  The ads for the new firearms talk about how the Raptor/Shockwave grips reduce the felt recoil. 
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T.O.M.

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2018, 11:32:54 AM »
Here's video of Clint Smith shooting the Shockwave...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM_sqSTg2v8&t=506s

And here is Hickock45...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxECBq-f68s

Don't know that I'd want to spend all day at the range shooting one, but they look interesting, especially as an indoor shotgun.
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mtnbkr

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2018, 01:53:11 PM »
The new wood-stocked Remington version is pure sex.  I want one.


Chris

230RN

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2018, 02:06:00 PM »
Very interesting especially in light of the adaptor I recently found* which allows those shorty Aguila 12-gauge shells (1-3/4") to be reliably fed in the Mossberg shotguns without modifying the shell elevators.  These short shells increases the standard magazine capacity substantially and reduce the kick.

Adaptor:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/07/daniel-zimmerman/gear-review-opsol-mini-clip-mossberg-shotguns/

https://youtu.be/mAyl_utECBc

OPSOLMINI-CLIP.COM

While the shorty shells are obviously less powerful than full size shells, they are capable of adequate (IMHO) hitting power for close range defense purposes.  IMHO.  I had occasion to play with them on various targets of opportunity and while they won't saw a 2 X 4 in half like a magnum 12 gauge goose load, I was impressed with the damage. This was long before the OPSOL Mini-clip came out, and I had to single-load the Aguila shells.

Nowadays, with this device, it would seem we would have a good marriage between Mossberg's shorty shotgun and Aguila's shorty shells.

Terry

* June 2017 American Rifleman, page 32.  If those adaptors had been around back when I was playing with the Aguilars, I probably would have bought a case of the Aguila shorty shotshells.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 02:36:55 PM by 230RN »

K Frame

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2018, 02:06:11 PM »
I've fired shotguns like that. the NFA stuff, like the Auto Burglar and the H&R handyguns.

yeah, they look neat, but they are a gold plated bitch to hit with, and the recoil will rip your wrists and elbows to hell and back.
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mtnbkr

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2018, 02:08:26 PM »
I've fired shotguns like that. the NFA stuff, like the Auto Burglar and the H&R handyguns.

yeah, they look neat, but they are a gold plated bitch to hit with, and the recoil will rip your wrists and elbows to hell and back.

With the same style stock?  Because so far the reports are that these new ones are fairly easy to hit with and recoil isn't an issue. 

Chris

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2018, 02:15:58 PM »
With the same style stock?  Because so far the reports are that these new ones are fairly easy to hit with and recoil isn't an issue. 

Chris

Does that "modified" pistol grip really make a big difference? Or is it other parts of the design? Like Mike, I have shot, and am not a fan of, pistol grip shotguns - at least the "standard" style.

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2018, 02:22:03 PM »
If you watch Hickock, he makes hits with slugs across the hill on his range, and I think his gong is 100 yards out. 

Maybe the shape of the grip helps tame some of the recoil.  Instead of kicking back right into your palm, it slides and torques.  Kind of like shooting heavy loads in a revolver... SAA style grips let the revolver turn in your hand, reducing the felt recoil compared to a DA Smith grip frame.
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mtnbkr

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2018, 02:27:34 PM »
Does that "modified" pistol grip really make a big difference?

What I've read indicates it makes all the difference.

I've fired shotguns from the hip by holding onto the shoulder stock grip and forend.  The gun moved a lot, but the recoil wasn't punishing.  I can see how a traditional PGS would be rough on the hands/wrists though.

Chris

K Frame

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2018, 02:45:04 PM »
"With the same style stock?"

No. Not the same style stock. Google Auto & Burglar or Handigun and you'll see the type of stock they used.

If that new baseball bat style stock works, that would be great.
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Kingcreek

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2018, 05:33:13 PM »
I'm not convinced they do anything that couldn't be done better with a handgun.
I haven't shot the newest renditions but I've got 50 years experience shooting shotguns and I've shot some NFA sawed offs. I haven't seen one yet that I want.
Shotguns are great. So are handguns. It's a painful mistake to make a shotgun into a handgun.
What we have here is failure to communicate.

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2018, 06:16:40 PM »
I'm not convinced they do anything that couldn't be done better with a handgun.
I haven't shot the newest renditions but I've got 50 years experience shooting shotguns and I've shot some NFA sawed offs. I haven't seen one yet that I want.
Shotguns are great. So are handguns. It's a painful mistake to make a shotgun into a handgun.

Yeah, but they look really cool.   :lol:
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Brad Johnson

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2018, 06:30:42 PM »
I've never had an issue, painful or otherwise, with a PGO shotty but I'm used to them. The trick is to not gorilla-grip them and stay tensed up. A firm grip and loose arm posture lets your hands and arms ride with the recoil. Takes the strain off your wrist and elbow. I figure a home invasion scenario will have so much adrenaline pumping that it wouldn't matter anyway. At home intruder range I've always been able to stay on a paper plate but, again, it's something that seemed to come naturally so I never had cause to doubt a PGO's efficacy, utility, and usefulness.

Some of the reasons I like PGO's for home defense... Soft lead shot, even 000 buck, has a bit less over-penetration potential relative to a jacketed projectile. The firearm's length makes it far more maneuverable in a home defense scenario versus a shoulder-stocked shotty. Finally, it's hard to argue against the terminal ballistics of a 3" 000 buck round. Does that mean it's the only thing within reach? No. In addition to the 18.5" Mossberg between my bed and nightstand there's also a Ruger .357 in the drawer. Similar setup in the living room. I like having options.

All that said, to each his own and use whatever you feel best suits your style, needs, and comfort level. Most anything that goes "bang" beats the heck out of teeth and rocks.

Brad
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 10:06:15 AM by Brad Johnson »
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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2018, 06:31:43 PM »
I want one in semi auto.

Brad Johnson

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2018, 06:43:50 PM »
I want one in semi auto.

You lack imagination, sir. One demerit.

Brad
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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2018, 06:46:18 PM »
The new wood-stocked Remington version is pure sex.  I want one.


Chris

Yeah, my wife came in while I was reading this thread and even she thinks the Remington looks sexy. She also didn't balk when I mentioned we might need one.
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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2018, 07:20:11 PM »
If I were to get one it would be the intention of shooting the Aguila Mini-shells through it.  They have fewer pellets, but are close to the same velocity of regular 12 gauge. 
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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2018, 07:59:13 PM »
My wife and I had no issues aiming or shooting our 18.5" Persuader 12ga with low brass bird shot.
I might not last very long or be very effective but I'll be a real pain in the ass for a minute!
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mtnbkr

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2018, 08:22:29 PM »
If I were to get one it would be the intention of shooting the Aguila Mini-shells through it.  They have fewer pellets, but are close to the same velocity of regular 12 gauge. 

You want the Mossberg then. I'm not aware of any conversion kit that enables the 870 to shoot the minishells.  Mine wont.

Chris

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2018, 08:29:19 PM »
My old Mossberg fed them just fine.
I might not last very long or be very effective but I'll be a real pain in the ass for a minute!
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mtnbkr

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2018, 08:32:43 PM »
My old Mossberg fed them just fine.

Yeah, I think that's why I said he would want the Mossberg.  ;/

Chris

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2018, 08:32:52 PM »
You know,  I think Chris (the other one) has a point.  I think I want one just because.   The wood is pretty.
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Blakenzy

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2018, 09:30:43 PM »
I've fired shotguns like that. the NFA stuff, like the Auto Burglar and the H&R handyguns.

yeah, they look neat, but they are a gold plated bitch to hit with, and the recoil will rip your wrists and elbows to hell and back.

Yes! the elbow! I expected the pain to be in the hands/wrist but after 3 rounds on a PGO I had a distinct acute pain in the strong arm elbow.
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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2018, 09:50:07 PM »
My local gun shop story on PGO shotguns never gets old, well, at least to me. I was in there a lot. How much? The manager would get me to man the store while he went to 7-11. And the store was in Hampton, VA, a veritable paradise. Well, they sold a ton of the Mossberg Persuaders. Best selling gun. The target market did not know how to name the gun to ask to see it so they took to asking for the gun like Denzel used in Training Day. The staff named the guns Denzels amongst themselves. And they weren't done there. Every gun purchase got a free range pass. And then they upsold them 3" magnum slugs just so the staff at the range store could watch the show. Less humorous if you are on the line, I do not care for dropped/tossed guns around me.
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just Warren

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Re: The new non-NFA short-barrel shotguns
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2018, 10:52:50 PM »
If I bought one I'd also have to get the post-apocalyptic over-the-back scabbard to go with.
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