2019 Toyota TRD Pro

[Ben]

Toyota is introducing new TRD Pro packages on the Tacoma, Tundra, and 4Runner. Interestingly, they have a "desert package" with a raised air intake in the "snorkel" fashion. I don't think I've ever seen anything similar as a factory option on a US vehicle. Maybe Hummers had it?



https://www.autoblog.com/2018/02/08/toyota-2019-trd-pro-trucks-chicago/

[Scout26]

Yep, we had those on some HWMMV's.  So you could drive through water over your head...

[Boomhauer]

I've seen AEV Dodge Rams here at the dealerships with snorkels.

[Ben]

Yep, we had those on some HWMMV's.  So you could drive through water over your head...

When I still had my Trooper, perusing around those forums showed that it was a very common after market feature on Troopers in Australia and Africa, and while not over their heads (usually    ), they seemed to like "over the wheel well" water crossings.

I can see the value for desert stuff though. One of my 4by fishing spots in the Sierra has a dirt that's as powdery as talcum and will put me in thick cloud when  I drive through it. I always swap out my air filter after the Fall fishing season, and it always needs swapping out. I could probably get another 7K-10K of driving on a filter if it wasn't for that spot, which only accounts for maybe 50-100 miles of filter time.

[Fly320s]

Yep, we had those on some HWMMV's.  So you could drive through water over your head...

That type of snorkle was originally designed to reduce the amount of dust getting to the engine.  It should face backwards.  Now they are used to allow vehicles to ford deep water, except I don't think a gas engine will run long when completely submerged.  Really, they are there for show, not go.

[mtnbkr]

That type of snorkle was originally designed to reduce the amount of dust getting to the engine.  It should face backwards.  Now they are used to allow vehicles to ford deep water, except I don't think a gas engine will run long when completely submerged.  Really, they are there for show, not go.

Even if the engine isn't fully submerged, you can get water into the intake (have heard of it happening with water up to the grill due to wave action).  I'm sure most are for show, but it is a functional addition even without turning your truck into a submarine

Chris

[Fly320s]

Even if the engine isn't fully submerged, you can get water into the intake (have heard of it happening with water up to the grill due to wave action).  I'm sure most are for show, but it is a functional addition even without turning your truck into a submarine

Chris

I agree.  And the water doesn't need to be all that deep considering some cars have the engine air intake placed pretty low.

The point I was trying to make is that the snorkel doesn't need to be that high.  Some idiot is going to try to drive his new truck through water four feet deep and ruin his engine then blame Toyota.  That snorkel is used to sell trucks, not save engines.

[Ben]

That snorkel is used to sell trucks, not save engines.

I do pretty much agree with this. With that situation I mentioned in my earlier post, I'm not sure the snorkel would make a significant difference, unless, as mentioned, it faced backwards. I'm not even sure that would help much.

I'm no expert, but if I were gonna spend a couple of months on a dusty desert adventure, I'd maybe just toss in a $15 air filter and swap out if I were really concerned (and if the current filter was actually getting stuffed with dirt).

Personally, I don't like the look of a snorkel if "cool appearance" is what they're going for. I'd rather save the money and put it towards real tires, because in recent years, Toyota has been throwing highway tires on a lot of their offroad offerings.

[mtnbkr]

I agree.  And the water doesn't need to be all that deep considering some cars have the engine air intake placed pretty low.

The point I was trying to make is that the snorkel doesn't need to be that high.  Some idiot is going to try to drive his new truck through water four feet deep and ruin his engine then blame Toyota.  That snorkel is used to sell trucks, not save engines.

Does it need to be that tall?  Probably not.  Does TRD actually manufacture the snorkel?  Again, probably not.  I suspect they buy them from companies like ARB (It looks identical to ARB's snorkel).  That height is pretty much the standard model.  I've never seen taller or shorter versions. 

The entire package is designed to sell trucks.  Few people who need those features are buying *new* trucks for that purpose, they're building their own with older models. 

FWIW, I've driven two different trucks through water approaching 3' deep, carefully.  I've considered a snorkel on my 4Runner, not because I need it regularly (dust avoidance is another, more likely, benefit), but because the potential for needing it even once could make it worth the effort.  It's also why I've extended my tranny and diff breathers.

I'm considering an overland trip in the National Forests here in VA this summer.  While much of it could be driven by a 2wd truck with modest clearance there are multiple water crossings and rough sections requiring more clearance and 4wd (not AWD).  The snorkel, in times of wet weather, could be an asset.  In times of dry weather, it'll reduce dust ingestion into the intake.  Either way, it could have a functional benefit even for me.

Chris

[mtnbkr]

Personally, I don't like the look of a snorkel if "cool appearance" is what they're going for. I'd rather save the money and put it towards real tires, because in recent years, Toyota has been throwing highway tires on a lot of their offroad offerings.

People argue about the best AT tires like we argue about guns.  Putting semi-disposable and inexpensive highway tires on the truck makes more sense than jacking up the price by a grand in order to fit it with an AT tire when the purchaser wants a different AT tire or even a mud terrain tire.

Chris

[Fly320s]

It's also why I've extended my tranny and diff breathers.

It is things like this that many people don't know about.  People hear "snorkel" and think that means they can drive underwater.

Caveat emptor.  To each his own, and all that.  

I wonder what kind of warnings and disclaimers Toyota will put in the owner's manual that doesn't get read.

[mtnbkr]

I hope they sell a lot of these to folks who never take them offroad because that will turn into a good supply of real and affordable offroad vehicles for "regular folks" in a few years.  Toyota likes to put real offroad tech in their trucks as optional equipment.  The e-locker available in 3rd Gen 4Runners is a great example.  AFAIK, nobody was doing that back then.  Unfortunately, when I bought my 4Runner, I wasn't aware of that option, so I didn't search it out.  I would have loved to find a used 4Runner with 5spd and e-locker languishing on a lot because of that 5spd (which is how I got my non-e-locker model).

Chris

[Ben]

People argue about the best AT tires like we argue about guns.  Putting semi-disposable and inexpensive highway tires on the truck makes more sense than jacking up the price by a grand in order to fit it with an AT tire when the purchaser wants a different AT tire or even a mud terrain tire.

Chris

I agree with the "best AT tire debate" point. However I will say that my previous 4x4s, while maybe not having the AT tire that I would choose on them, had adequate AT tires that  I could live with until they wore out.

My current 4Runner came with HT Bridgestones, and they are actually a quality tire for highway driving. They were very quiet and reviews indicate that you can easily get 60-70K out of them. However both reviews and my own experience showed that they are terrible offroad and in slippery conditions.

I understand that Toyota and others put on the HT tires both for CAFE and because they know that probably 50% of 4Runner buyers never leave the payment, and probably another 20% at most travel on graded dirt/gravel (and not all that much).

The 4Runner tires are the only OEM tires I've ever replaced way earlier than their potential lifespan, and I went with LT ATs on the replacement, something that the manufacturer probably would never include. Though it could be that some of the TRD Pro line may come with load C LTs. And the Tundra probably has an LT option.

[Ben]

I hope they sell a lot of these to folks who never take them offroad because that will turn into a good supply of real and affordable offroad vehicles for "regular folks" in a few years.  Toyota likes to put real offroad tech in their trucks as optional equipment.  The e-locker available in 3rd Gen 4Runners is a great example.  AFAIK, nobody was doing that back then.  Unfortunately, when I bought my 4Runner, I wasn't aware of that option, so I didn't search it out.  I would have loved to find a used 4Runner with 5spd and e-locker languishing on a lot because of that 5spd (which is how I got my non-e-locker model).

Chris

What I miss on the 5th gen (mine) that they did on previous generations, is (I forget what the differential is called) the "dual mode" 4WD high. Where you had one mode for "full time" that you could use on dry pavement (more like AWD), then true 4WD high and 4WD low.

I find that a whole lot of the time that I want 4WD high is when I'm driving in conditions where it might be snowy/icy/slushy/ then switch to dry, then back to ice patches. You can't really keep the 5th gens in 4WD high for those situations. Though I suppose traction control is sophisticated enough in new vehicles to handle those conditions in 2WD. I've even read suggestions that it's better to stay in 2WD in situations like that and let the computer handle the slick stuff.

I forgot what the 4WD system was called on my old Trooper, but you basically had a "4WD high (aka AWD) button that you could press at any time under 65MPH and drive in any conditions, then you also had the true 4WD low lever. I really liked that setup for my uses.

[mtnbkr]

I actually like my 3rd Gen because the 4wd mechanism is more primitive and easier to work on.  It does have autohubs, but otherwise is pretty similar to the older manual transfer cases seen in trucks going back decades.  I'm sure newer systems are just as reliable and more functional, but it's nice to have a simpler system to rely on and maintain.

Chris

[Ben]

It does have autohubs,

I do not miss manual hubs. I had them on my old Bronco, and I still remember a fishing trip with some friends. We hit an unexpected area of ice, went sliding (luckily not going over an embankment) then decided we'd better go to 4WD. Me and a passenger got out to lock the hubs, and both of us promptly slipped on the ice and fell on our asses. 

I really like not having to get out anymore. :)

[Sideways_8]

The entire package is designed to sell trucks.  Few people who need those features are buying *new* trucks for that purpose, they're building their own with older models.

I personally wouldn't buy a new truck just to off-road in it. Ive driven a few 3/4 tons that had been driven on unpaved mountain roads the majority of their life. Around 60,000 miles they were pretty much worn out. Even construction sites will put a lot of wear and tear on a truck. My work truck is a 2014 F-150 with 99,000 miles on it. To date, the only real mechanical problem was a bad purge valve that made cranking the truck up after refueling a pain. Non-mechanical side? I'm on my third set of tires, second windshield, second pair of back shocks, and the fourth pair of brakes.

[dogmush]

 Now they are used to allow vehicles to ford deep water, except I don't think a gas engine will run long when completely submerged.  Really, they are there for show, not go.

It'll run submerged for a good long while if you've taken the time to set up the fording kit correctly.  While not a truck, I waterproofed my Suzuki King Quad when I lived in Alaska and ran it through a lot of water crossings, and buried the engine in mud for 10-15 minutes at a time while I winched myself out.  Engine kept running.

On truck snorkels I would point you at 1:40 of this video.  That Toyota runs for a while. (sorry about the music)

Yep, we had those on some HWMMV's.  So you could drive through water over your head... rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes

A HMMWV is rated for 30" water without a fording kit and 60" with the kit, so it's only over your head if you are pretty short. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Jg5JR2FV0  I've done similar depths to this off a boat and up a beach, but you want to have nice firm sand, or better gravel.

Snorkels (well fording kits, of which snorkels are a piece) are very effective at allowing vehicles to operate with the engine and drivetrain submerged.  I suspect that Americans on gravel roads aren't really the target audience for those TRD kits.

Snorkels also offer a modest Cold Air Induction/Ram Air effect which helps the engine.

As to Ben's comment, I see them all the time in the mid-east, but I think you are correct they haven't been factory option in the US.  Land Rover offers one as a factory option on the Defender, but I don't know if they did here

ETA: Some quick googleing shows that you can get a Hi-Lux, A Landcruiser, a Landcruiser Prado, and a LC Pickup with a factory snorkel in Africa, the mid east, and most of Asia, so Toyota certainly feels they can sell enough.  And people feel they are useful enough to buy.

Again, America probably isn't the target market, but someone in TRD was like "hell we have this already engineered for the Hi-Lux, lets tweak it a little for the Tacoma body and charge Americans a grand for it.  Betcha someone buys it."

[bedlamite]

People argue about the best AT tires like we argue about guns.  Putting semi-disposable and inexpensive highway tires on the truck makes more sense than jacking up the price by a grand in order to fit it with an AT tire when the purchaser wants a different AT tire or even a mud terrain tire.

Chris

I'd be willing to bet most of them never see anything worse than a gravel road.

[mtnbkr]

I'd be willing to bet most of them never see anything worse than a gravel road.

Depends on who you mean by "them". 

If you mean these trucks, when new, then I agree, which is why I commented that I hope they sell a lot of these to folks who don't go offroad so those of us who do can pick them up for good prices on the secondary market.  If you're talking about folks who argue about AT tires, then it depends.  I know a number of the Virginia-based folks of one of the Toyota 4x4 boards do take theirs offroad (more than just gravel) because I've joined them and have the pics to prove it (google Tuscarora Trail .

This isn't from my trip (those are all on my local PC, but it's the same trail), but it gives you a taste of some of the offroading locals do here.  What isn't evident from the picture is that this trail runs along a ridge top, so the downhill side (to the right side, not behind) of the pic gets really downhill quickly:



I know we all like to sit back and bloviate about how nobody else does things in "real life", but if you step out beyond the APS cloisters, you'll find other folks doing "stuff" too. :)

Chris

[lupinus]

Shot in the dark here but I wouldn't be surprised if aerodynamics had something to do with it. Something about lower than that and it's missing a lot of air flow moving over the vehicle, and putting it that high puts it in a better position for air collection.

Google how air flow moves over a truck. If it's sucking air in through a snorkel putting it high like that puts it smack in the best air flow.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[MechAg94]

It is things like this that many people don't know about.  People hear "snorkel" and think that means they can drive underwater.

Caveat emptor.  To each his own, and all that.  

I wonder what kind of warnings and disclaimers Toyota will put in the owner's manual that doesn't get read.

I had someone tell me Toyota used a sealed transmission on the Tacoma.  Does that still have the breather?

[MechAg94]

I have an F150 V6 with the Ecoboost turbocharger.  It was pointed out to me that the blank spot below the grill was the air intake and I need to be careful about that if trying to drive thru high water.  I did not realize that, but I never tried to drive through water that high. 

[Regolith]

I do not miss manual hubs. I had them on my old Bronco, and I still remember a fishing trip with some friends. We hit an unexpected area of ice, went sliding (luckily not going over an embankment) then decided we'd better go to 4WD. Me and a passenger got out to lock the hubs, and both of us promptly slipped on the ice and fell on our asses.  

I really like not having to get out anymore. :)

I remember hunting with my dad, and he asked me to get out and engage the manual hubs on his F250. Except I couldn't, because one of them was gone.

Damn things stuck way out beyond the side of the tire, and apparently at some point one of them had been knocked off by a rock.  

Manual hubs are definitely one thing I do not miss.

[mtnbkr]

I had someone tell me Toyota used a sealed transmission on the Tacoma.  Does that still have the breather?

What year?  Manual or automatic?

My 1997 4Runner, which is a 3rd Gen 5spd has breathers.  Otherwise, you'd blow seals.  If theyr'e sealed now, I'd like to understand how they account for expansion of air and fluid inside the transmission as it warms up.

Chris