The disappearing American grad student in STEM

[MillCreek]

https://www.seattletimes.com/explore/special-sections/the-disappearing-american-grad-student/

Two interesting things to me about the article:

1.  The percentage of foreign-born STEM graduate students in the USA;
2.  'STEM' seems to equal only computer science.  Not a word about foreign or native grad students in physics, chemistry, astronomy, biology, mathematics, engineering, etc.

When I was a grad student in chemistry in the early 80's at the UW, there were about 12 people in my program; all of them were native-born, eight were White, three were Asian and one was Black.  10 males and two females.

[Kingcreek]

I've heard there is a shortage some areas.
My nephew attended a state university on a full ride math/science scholarship and graduated w dual degrees in chemical engineering and something called material properties. He had 2 short but paid research fellowships as an undergrad. The university begged him to stay and offered a position with research compensation in a grad student program but he had job offers and said he was ready to get out of the university system (and to get a job in the vicinity of his girlfriend).

[MechAg94]

What are the job opportunities for graduate engineering students?  In the 90's, I was thinking the pay and such wasn't enough to justify more school time unless you really wanted to do that.  I graduated with a few guys who were headed to graduate school, but most wanted to get out and make some money.  We were pretty sick of school and most grad students didn't have much money.

I wonder if they do any recruiting of people who have 5 or 10 years experience in the corporate world who might be ready to escape and come back? 

[MechAg94]

I guess I would just chalk it up as one more reason govt student loans should be restricted to areas of study that are useful and needed. 

[zahc]

I was basically the token white guy in grad school. Mostly Koreans. Professors too.

[Pb]

I suspect American students are getting lazier, and our lower schools are getting worse.  We are having real problems with it at my college.  May students come to college totally unprepared, and aren't interested in studying... and then are surprised when they fail.

[Mannlicher]

I have been seeing this for a number of years.  I usually do several graduation ceremonies at UF in these fields.  I have a number of friends that teach, or are in administration.  The paucity of  American kids getting degrees at the Medical School, Dental School, College of Pharmacy,  Electrical Engineering, Nuke Engineering, Robotics is glaringly apparent.
Now one thing to consider is that the huge number of foreign students, particularly from China,  the Middle East, India, have their tuition paid for by their countries.  Full boat.  Were it not for that, I seriously doubt UF could keep those schools open.

[MillCreek]

^^^ The University of Washington has a large number of Asian students from various overseas countries, and both the administration and state Legislature have talked about how these full-tuition students help subsidize the rest of the University.

[T.O.M.]

Just got home from a college visit with my oldest.  He's interested in mechanical engineering.  The College of Engineering and Computer Science did a presentation.  Judging just by appearances, which is completely inaccurate, I know, maybe a third could have been foreign students.  The vast majority of those students went to Computer and Software Engineering, Bio Engineering, and Chemical Engineering.  Mechanical and Electrical Engineering, the foreign appearing (and female) students were far outnumbered.  During a panel discussion of current students, only two discussed pursuing a Master's Degree.  The other eight all had job offers, salary ranges from $50K to $80K.  Two mentioned possibly coming back for Master's after a few years.  Can't say I blame them for not passing on $50K jobs right out of undergrad...

[sumpnz]

Damn, is that all some are making?  I got mid-50's starting salary in 2001 (aerospace engineering).

[T.O.M.]

Damn, is that all some are making?  I got mid-50's starting salary in 2001 (aerospace engineering).

I thought that was pretty good. I started in 94 as a prosecutor making $25.  And who said lawyers make lots of money???  🤣

[zahc]

Damn, is that all some are making?  I got mid-50's starting salary in 2001 (aerospace engineering).

My thoughts exactly. I think the previous generation is completely out of whack with what they think a reasonable salary is, or maybe degrees have simply inflated to the moon.

I was talking with a guy who dropped out of college for a 75,000 job...in 1993. According to the CPI, that grand and accurate measure of true price inflation, that's equivalent of 129,000 now. Try finding the company today that will pay 129,000 to a college student with no experience.  Companies think it's normal to pay the same nominal salary they were paying 10 or 20 years ago, then they accuse the candidates of being spoiled just for asking what would have been normal wage (or lower) in real terms. I literally watched a CEO complain about there labor cost has increased 75% since what it was 15 years ago, like it means there is a crisis. That works out to 4% increase per year. If starting wages are not 50% to 75% higher now than they were 15 years ago, it means real wages have dropped, and that's exactly what is and has happened.

People still think $100,000 is a lot of money now because they remember it being a lot of money when they graduated.

Nobody should be happy about earning $50k with a college degree in 2018. To stick with the 1993 date, that was $29,000 in 1993 dollars, according to the CPI. That's a terrible wage.

[sumpnz]

At 3% annual inflation my $54k starting salary would be $89k today.  That seems really high, and I doubt, all else being equal, I'd get that kind of starting salary today.  So maybe overall wage inflation has been quite a bit less than 3% over the last 17 years.  Though I have little doubt overall real inflation has been higher.

[KD5NRH]

Not sure if this is what women in math look like at BYU, or if they're the world's least convincing trannies.  Either way, that would keep me from taking any more than the minimum math courses.



Edited by ben for ginorminosity.

[motojim515]

A new study shows an interesting paradox in women going into STEM. Women from first world countries are less likely to take degrees in STEM area and go for degrees in fields they find more attractive. Women from less developed countries are pursuing STEM degrees as they see the jobs as a path to better standard of living.

Link to study:
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0956797617741719

Link to human readable article about the study:
https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/gender-equality-impact-women-in-stem-sector/

I find this interesting as I have four nieces that are post or nearly post college. Three wanted careers they saw as interesting and good for them. The fourth is finishing a degree in Bio Chem Eng from U of Del. and has focused on skin and cosmetics with internships and work program and already has some interesting offers.

[KD5NRH]

A new study shows an interesting paradox in women going into STEM. Women from first world countries are less likely to take degrees in STEM area and go for degrees in fields they find more attractive.

I suspect the number of American women who only go to college to find a husband pursuing a lucrative degree skews that greatly.