Author Topic: Car battery that doesn't suck?  (Read 5115 times)

zxcvbob

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Car battery that doesn't suck?
« on: February 17, 2018, 11:18:09 PM »
I thought Interstate was supposed to be a good battery.  I bought one at Costco a little over 2 years ago for my Ford Focus.  Right at the 2 year mark, it started going dead on me when the weather was cold, even if I had driven the car the day before.  That's happened 5 or 6 times this winter.  I took the car to Autozone and they tested the battery and the alternator and both checked out okay.  (I had tested the alternator myself a little earlier)

Today wasn't all that cold; about 28 degrees.  I started the car just fine and moved it off the street for the snow plow... and I left the lights on.  I noticed it about 2 minutes later; 3 minutes tops.  The lights were still nice and bright.  The car wouldn't start (just clicked) and the voltage dropped low enough to reset the onboard computer and the radio presets.  I put a battery charger on it, and it was back to full charge in just a few minutes and started right up.  So the battery has no reserve capacity at all.  Towards the end of the charge, the fancy battery charger said the battery has an open cell.  I pried the caps off to see if one of the cells was low and they are all full.

I have the charger running the desulfate cycle overnight, but a 2 year old battery shouldnt be sulfated so that's probably not it.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2018, 11:27:43 PM »
My compact utility tractor has an Interstate battery in it. It's still the one that was in it when I bought it Jan. 2011. It sometimes sits for a couple of months at a time between uses and I've never had a problem with it. Sometimes you just get a lemon no matter who sold it.
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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2018, 11:29:56 PM »
Sounds like a internal fault in the battery.
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zxcvbob

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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2018, 11:38:13 PM »
A former coworker that I still have lunch with a couple of times per month also has a 2 year old Interstate battery with the same problem.

I know 2 is a pretty small sample size.   ;/
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2018, 11:45:42 PM »
Actually sounds more like a connection problem. If the battery still had enough juice for the headlights to be running full bright (presuming they didn't dim significantly we you hit the starter) then it's a connection somewhere.

It's easy to test for a dead cell (partial internal short) by using a multimeter. Hook up the meter, measure voltage. Turn on the headlights, measure again. Sitting static the voltage should be somewhere around 12.2-12.5v. With the headlights on it shouldn't drop any lower than about 11.7-11.8. If it drops to anywhere under 11.0 and continues to drop steadily, it's toast.

If it holds voltage under a modest load like headlights then your problem is elsewhere and is likely a partially corroded cable. First thing to check is the main battery cable and cable terminal. Second thing to check is the major ground points, especially battery to engine.

Brad
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zxcvbob

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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2018, 11:52:57 PM »
Thanks, Brad.  The battery cables look good at the terminals.  The clamps are tight and not corroded.  But I haven't checked the other ends.  Might be a loose connection at the starter solenoid, or where the ground cable connects to the block or frame.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2018, 11:59:58 PM »
When I was resurrecting my 1983 Chevy pickup after a 10 year barn hibernation I had a bad connection at the main ground cable to the block. It did manage to find a ground path through several other lighter gauge wires for a few seconds before the smoke cloud billowed out from under the hood.
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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2018, 12:39:16 AM »
There are fewer manufacturers making batteries than you might think. I went through this last year, and bought a Super Start Extreme from O'Reilly. It's the same as the Deka Intimidator AGM battery made by East Penn in the USA. Optima and Interstate batteries are made by Johnson Controls in Mexico, and are not the same quality they used to be.

https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/articles/battery-articles/battery-basics.html
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 12:52:45 AM by bedlamite »
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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2018, 03:18:02 AM »
The click tells me to check the connections throughout the starting system...

Hint one:  Drive the point of a screwdriver into those little gaps between the battery post and the clamp itself to test that connection.  This deforms the lead and makes a better connection temporarily.

Hint two:  Give the starter and solenoid a good bash and see if this makes a better internal connection to the starter from the solenoid terminal.  This issue is sometimes intermittent, depending on dirt and the last speed bump you hit. (The solenoid, after all, is a just a bigassed relay.)

Disclaimer:  This all may not work for newer systems.  I have no idea how they do this kind of starter-battery circuitry nowadays, although I helped get a newerish SUV on the road again with the screwdriver trick only two years ago or so.

I also missed Brad's suggestions on the bad connections.

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« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 03:39:54 AM by 230RN »

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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2018, 06:18:52 AM »
Hint three, a lot of auto parts stores, especially the chains, have little devices that they can hook up to the battery system and it will diagnose the entire charging system.

I had the same thing happen to me a couple of years ago. Guy came out with this little lunchbox kind of thing, hooked it up, and in less than 3 minutes told me my alternator was fine, the regulators were fine, the problem was a dead cell in the battery.
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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2018, 08:11:20 AM »
I just killed an Auto Zone AGM battery in under 12 months but  it was my fault ... They took it in and tested it over night and gave me a new one in the morning w/ zero BS and zero out of pocket ... very happy about that.  Was told it was 100% free replacement if the battery died w/in 3 years of purchase.

Battery was the trunk battery (accesories) in my wife's Benz that averages 200 mi/yr .... the few times it gets driven were never far enough to keep the starter battery and the secondary battery charged.  I have a Battery Tender on the new battery now.  Hope to sell the car soon.

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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2018, 08:13:42 AM »
Ford's are notorious for chinzy neg cables that corrode and lead to bad connections.

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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2018, 09:50:59 AM »
I used to swear by DieHard, which I had zero problems with, but apparently they tend towards suckage nowadays. When I replaced the batteries in my old F-250 a few years ago, my research indicated that Motorcraft actually has some of the better batteries out there. That's what I went with.
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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2018, 09:55:25 AM »
On parts monkeys and alternator and battery testing. I bought an alternator, installed it, was horrible. Took it back, they bench ran it, declared it good and me an idiot. Whatever, exchange this one. Put it in, they check my car and told me the battery was bad. But, no more charging system faults and that battery and alternator took the car to the end of its life. I have also started running a second ground from the alternator body to the negative terminal, just as insurance.
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HankB

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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2018, 10:10:09 AM »
I had an Interstate battery in my old Explorer. At about 3 years old - it exploded. (Fortunately, not with enough force to damage my vehicle.)

I phoned Interstate many, MANY times (they weren't answering their phone) but once I finally DID get through, the Interstate customer service agent told me their warranty doesn't cover their batteries exploding.  :facepalm:

Right now, I have a AAA battery the auto club installed . . . don't know the vendor, but these seem to work as well as any and better than most.

Quote from: Ben
I used to swear by DieHard, which I had zero problems with, but apparently they tend towards suckage nowadays.

Seems like ALL Sears brands - including Craftsman and Kenmore - tend towards suckage nowadays. (Craftsman isn't really Sears anymore - IIRC they sold it to B&D, but can continue selling it for a while)
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zxcvbob

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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2018, 12:24:54 PM »
I measured the battery voltage this morning after the charger was hooked up all night doing that desulfate thing.  Measured right at the terminals so the cables were out of the picture.  12.0V  (shouldn't it be almost 12.7?)  I turned on the headlights and it dropped to 11.8.  I turned the lights off w/o waiting to see if it would drop because I didn't have time to jump it if it didn't start again after.

I will do some better testing when I get back home after church.  Also trace the cables and make sure they are tight and not too corroded at the ass-end.

I should see what brand of battery is in my truck.  It's several years old and sits sometimes for 2 months without being driven and it starts every time.  The truck is a little older and might not have as much parasitic load.
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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2018, 01:48:54 PM »
Actually sounds more like a connection problem. If the battery still had enough juice for the headlights to be running full bright (presuming they didn't dim significantly we you hit the starter) then it's a connection somewhere.

It's easy to test for a dead cell (partial internal short) by using a multimeter. Hook up the meter, measure voltage. Turn on the headlights, measure again. Sitting static the voltage should be somewhere around 12.2-12.5v. With the headlights on it shouldn't drop any lower than about 11.7-11.8. If it drops to anywhere under 11.0 and continues to drop steadily, it's toast.

If it holds voltage under a modest load like headlights then your problem is elsewhere and is likely a partially corroded cable. First thing to check is the main battery cable and cable terminal. Second thing to check is the major ground points, especially battery to engine.

Brad

yup!
that happened to me, it was a pretty easy fix - once I realized it.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2018, 02:50:09 PM »
 12.0V  (shouldn't it be almost 12.7?)  I turned on the headlights and it dropped to 11.8.

Should be somewhere between 12.7 and 13.2 (2.1 - 2.2v per cell). A starting voltage of 12.0 but without a substantial voltage drop under load indicates the possibility of a significant parasitic draw, enough to pull your battery down over a span of hours rather than weeks. If your meter has an Amphere function you can test by disconnecing the negative lead and testing between the battery terminal and disconnected lead. A draw of more than a few dozen milliamps means something is staying on or shorted to ground. If that's the case you can sometimes diagnose by systematically pulling fuses until the draw suddenly goes away.

Brad
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zxcvbob

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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2018, 04:34:43 PM »
After driving it 20 miles round trip to church (country highway so just one stoplight) and then letting it sit for an hour, I check the voltage again.  12.5V.  I turned the headlights on and it immediately dropped to 11.9V.  Five minutes later it was still 11.8, so I turned off the lights and it was back at 12.0 after the dome light turned off.  All this sounds normal to me.

I put the charger back on, but put the negative clamp on the alternator bracket instead of the battery post.  It had no problem charging at 25 amps.
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230RN

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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2018, 05:12:35 PM »
Should be somewhere between 12.7 and 13.2 (2.1 - 2.2v per cell). A starting voltage of 12.0 but without a substantial voltage drop under load indicates the possibility of a significant parasitic draw, enough to pull your battery down over a span of hours rather than weeks. If your meter has an Amphere function you can test by disconnecing the negative lead and testing between the battery terminal and disconnected lead. A draw of more than a few dozen milliamps means something is staying on or shorted to ground. If that's the case you can sometimes diagnose by systematically pulling fuses until the draw suddenly goes away.

Brad

Similar problem, similar diagnostic technique with my old truck, except the "everything off" discharge current was cycling on and off about every 8 or so seconds.  Was not the turn signal blinker. Turned out it was the cigarette lighter had been pushed in just enough to make weak contact, warm up just enough to break contact, rinse and repeat.  Re-inserted cigarette lighter, cured the problem.

That one accounted for one hour and 79 grey hairs.

(Don't forget to switch back to "Volts" when you're done.  That one cost me a meter fuse.  And 23 more grey hairs.)

Terry


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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2018, 07:47:52 PM »
Similar problem, similar diagnostic technique with my old truck, except the "everything off" discharge current was cycling on and off about every 8 or so seconds.  Was not the turn signal blinker. Turned out it was the cigarette lighter had been pushed in just enough to make weak contact, warm up just enough to break contact, rinse and repeat.  Re-inserted cigarette lighter, cured the problem.

That one accounted for one hour and 79 grey hairs.

(Don't forget to switch back to "Volts" when you're done.  That one cost me a meter fuse.  And 23 more grey hairs.)

Terry



Ha, glad I'm  not the only moron. Goes to check battery. Meter still on Ohms. Gee those leads get hot in a hurry!
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charby

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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2018, 08:15:41 PM »
I have a battery from Advance Auto parts going on 4 years old in my Nissan. Like Bob, I also have some pretty dramatic seasonal temperature swings. Sometimes I need to put the batter on a trickle charger during an extending sub zero temps because I don't drive it enough to keep the battery fully charged. Haven't had a fail to start, just a bit sluggish to turn my truck over. When the weather gets warmer I am going to install an on board battery charger/tender because I really don't drive my truck more than 1 or 2 times a week. It is good to have a work provided vehicle that stays at my house.
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zahc

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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2018, 10:06:49 PM »
Almost all batteries are either Exide or Johnson Controls (JCI). The JCI are supposed to be slightly better. They have the corners that are more rounded. I always buy the mid grade from AutoZone I think. It's hard to go wrong they are basically a commodity.
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bedlamite

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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2018, 10:34:54 PM »
Almost all batteries are either Exide or Johnson Controls (JCI). The JCI are supposed to be slightly better. They have the corners that are more rounded. I always buy the mid grade from AutoZone I think. It's hard to go wrong they are basically a commodity.

Johnson Controls used to be good. Not so much since they moved production to Mexico.
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Re: Car battery that doesn't suck?
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2018, 11:45:08 PM »
Should be somewhere between 12.7 and 13.2 (2.1 - 2.2v per cell). A starting voltage of 12.0 but without a substantial voltage drop under load indicates the possibility of a significant parasitic draw, enough to pull your battery down over a span of hours rather than weeks.

Back when I had a spare car that didn't get driven often, rather than going through and making sure all my added electronics had been turned off after each use, I just threw one of these on the battery: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Everstart-936W-Positive-and-Negative-Terminal-Disconnect-for-12-or-24-Vehicle-Dynamic-Control-Systems/16006670

Cheap, takes a couple minutes to install and seconds to use.