Tell me again why we should buy a Tesla

[Hawkmoon]

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/01/ntsb-unhappy-with-tesla-release-of-investigative-information-in-fatal-crash/

Tesla autopilot steers $70,000 car into Jersey barrier, destroying vehicle, killing driver, and starting a fire. Tesla blames it on the driver.

Tesla said Huang had not followed guidelines intended to ensure drivers are paying attention while the vehicle is in Autopilot mode.

“The driver had received several visual and one audible hands-on warning earlier in the drive and the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision,” Tesla said. “The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider with the crushed crash attenuator, but the vehicle logs show that no action was taken.”

I completely fail to understand why anyone would pay big bux for an "autopilot" that requires the driver to keep his hands on the steering wheel and continuously monitor the "autopilot's" functionality. If I have to constantly be doing nothing other than being prepared to drive the car, I might as well drive the car.

[dogmush]

Tesla's Autopilot (and the newer "Enhanced Autopilot") are not actually self driving cars.  They are, and are marketed as, advanced driver aides.  The implied task there being you still need to drive the car, and they will aide you.

Guy should have RTFM.  (as should Uber's "I'll watch my phone while being a safety driver").

As far as I am aware, there are no actual self driving cars cleared for retail sale and use in America.  They are all still in the testing phase.

[Hawkmoon]

Tesla's Autopilot (and the newer "Enhanced Autopilot") are not actually self driving cars.  They are, and are marketed as, advanced driver aides.  The implied task there being you still need to drive the car, and they will aide you.

That was my point.

[dogmush]

Because it makes long drives easier and safer?

I paid for Blind spot radar, parking sensors, and forward collision warning for the same reason.  That doesn't mean I never hit the brakes until the beeper goes off, or just ignore my mirrors.  The aids help. People pay big bucks for Tesla's driver assist packages because they are the best driver's aides currently on the market.  (sadly saddled in an overpriced ride, but that's a different issue).  Why would you not get the best drivers aides you can afford?

[K Frame]

This is why you should always keep your hands on the wheel...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1UxZJ9owXY

[Fly320s]

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/01/ntsb-unhappy-with-tesla-release-of-investigative-information-in-fatal-crash/

Tesla autopilot steers $70,000 car into Jersey barrier, destroying vehicle, killing driver, and starting a fire. Tesla blames it on the driver.

I completely fail to understand why anyone would pay big bux for an "autopilot" that requires the driver to keep his hands on the steering wheel and continuously monitor the "autopilot's" functionality. If I have to constantly be doing nothing other than being prepared to drive the car, I might as well drive the car.

And my $30 million plane, that has a real autopilot, will fly me into the side of a mountain unless I take control.  It is a safety feature, not a failsafe.

[lupinus]

By that logic cruise control is totally useless drivle also because you have to still have to pay attention to needing to slow down, speed up, or stop.

It's an aide ment to make driving easier and allow you to hand over some of the details to the vehicle to make your life and trip more comfortable. I'm not super familiar with the tech but perhaps it's even enough to let you multi task a bit or something, but it's clearly still intended for you to not be taking a friggin nap or whatever the dude was doing so you can take full control when needed.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[cordex]

There should be a very clear distinction in responsibility between the automated systems and the driver.  I think the danger presented by some of these systems is that they blur that line and lull the driver into the sense that the automated systems are responsible for more than they are intended to handle.  It's hard to maintain alertness, awareness, and readiness without an actual need.  So, if the automated system correctly handles steering and speed control to maintain lane position and a safe following distance, it's easy for someone to start leaning more and more on the automated systems instead of being constantly prepared to intervene.

By that logic cruise control is totally useless drivle also because you have to still have to pay attention to needing to slow down, speed up, or stop.

Cruise control requires the user to maintain positive control and awareness.  It maintains a given speed, but still requires you to be directly involved in driving the vehicle at all times or you will crash in short order.  When we're talking about systems that can handle all direct control (speed, steering, obstacle avoidance, etc.) of the vehicle in certain circumstances, it is hard to maintain that mindset.  If everyone is responsible, no one is responsible.

[Fly320s]

There should be a very clear distinction in responsibility between the automated systems and the driver.

There is.  The driver is 100% responsible for the operation of the vehicle.  The automated systems have 0 responsibility.

If everyone is responsible, no one is responsible.

Which is why only the driver is responsible for control of the car. 

[Scout26]

Plus you may get stuck with a lemon from a company that is out of business.  Tesla is burning through cash, it doesn't look like they can raise any more from either bonds or stock issues due to downgrades from Moody's and the stock price tanking.  They only have enough cash on hand for a few more months and they are no where near the 5,000 Model 3's per week production number.

If you have Tesla stock or bonds; run, do not walk, to the exits...

[Hawkmoon]

Why would you not get the best drivers aides you can afford?

Speaking only for myself .. because I enjoy driving, and the best driver's aids I know of are my own eyes, hands, and feet.

The only technological driver's aid I want is a forward-looking tactical laser.

[cordex]

There is.  The driver is 100% responsible for the operation of the vehicle.  The automated systems have 0 responsibility.

Which is why only the driver is responsible for control of the car. 

I don't disagree, however as systems become more capable it is easier and easier for drivers to forget that fact.

[MechAg94]

Speaking only for myself .. because I enjoy driving, and the best driver's aids I know of are my own eyes, hands, and feet.

The only technological driver's aid I want is a forward-looking tactical laser.

Dual 50 caliber machine guns would be nice as well.  It would certainly make me feel better if not anyone else. 

[230RN]

For myself, I would like a backing-up warning radar or irdar.  Fully half of my accidents have been backing accidents.

The rest have just been fronting accidents.

[Fly320s]

I don't disagree, however as systems become more capable it is easier and easier for drivers to forget that fact.

That is a training issue, not a technology issue.  Also, it is part of the downward trend of taking responsibility for one's self.

Maybe the driving technology needs to come with mandatory instruction.

[dogmush]

Maybe drivers licenses need to be harder to get...

[Fly320s]

Maybe drivers licenses need to be harder to get...

That has been true for many years.

Everything about this event boils down to a lack of personal responsibility.

[MechAg94]

For myself, I would like a backing-up warning radar or irdar.  Fully half of my accidents have been backing accidents.

The rest have just been fronting accidents.

I have that on my F150 along with the camera.  It helps a lot.  The F150 rides high on the back end and the rear seat head rests don't help.  Having the camera makes me wish they had cameras looking at my blind spot also.  I am amazed how many people will see you backing up out of a parking spot and just walk right behind you.  I figure there will eventually be 360 degree camera views with radar in all directions.

[KD5NRH]

And my $30 million plane, that has a real autopilot, will fly me into the side of a mountain unless I take control.  It is a safety feature, not a failsafe.

If you can sleep through "TERRAIN PULL UP TERRAIN PULL UP TERRAIN PULL UP" then you likely need to be smacked with a mountain.

Though watching this video: https://electrek.co/2018/04/02/tesla-fatal-autopilot-crash-recreation/  I don't hear any audible warnings over the road noise.  Considering everybody else is offering some combination of (at least) forward LiDAR, sonar or radar based collision avoidance, I suspect Tesla's going to have to break down and add something to their visual-only system soon.

[dogmush]

If you can sleep through "TERRAIN PULL UP TERRAIN PULL UP TERRAIN PULL UP" then you likely need to be smacked with a mountain.

Though watching this video: https://electrek.co/2018/04/02/tesla-fatal-autopilot-crash-recreation/  I don't hear any audible warnings over the road noise.  Considering everybody else is offering some combination of (at least) forward LiDAR, sonar or radar based collision avoidance, I suspect Tesla's going to have to break down and add something to their visual-only system soon.

From tesla.com:

Advanced Sensor Coverage
Eight surround cameras provide 360 degrees of visibility around the car at up to 250 meters of range. Twelve updated ultrasonic sensors complement this vision, allowing for detection of both hard and soft objects at nearly twice the distance of the prior system. A forward-facing radar with enhanced processing provides additional data about the world on a redundant wavelength that is able to see through heavy rain, fog, dust and even the car ahead.

It would seem they are ahead of you.

[dogmush]

I have that on my F150 along with the camera.  It helps a lot.  The F150 rides high on the back end and the rear seat head rests don't help.  Having the camera makes me wish they had cameras looking at my blind spot also.  I am amazed how many people will see you backing up out of a parking spot and just walk right behind you.  I figure there will eventually be 360 degree camera views with radar in all directions.

My car has back up cam, top down cam, and two cams on the front bumper that can peek around blind corners. The back up cross traffic sensors are ultra sonic.  The whole system is really handy.  Like a good HUD, it's something I thought would be a gimmick, but use everyday.

[KD5NRH]

That has been true for many years.

Imagine if all the states had to upgrade DL standards to parallel FAA pilot licensing standards:

• Mandatory training on recognizing and handling common equipment failures, including actually demonstrating the ability in a simulated emergency. Skid, brake failure, front tire blowout at speed, etc.
• Additional training and certification required to drive in inclement weather.
• Certification for major classes of vehicles: no more passing the test in an automatic Fiesta on rural roads one day and dragging a 40' trailer through downtown Atlanta behind dad's 1-ton dually the next. (Yeah, I passed in a Geo Prism and pulled a 40' flatbed through town behind a 3-on-the-tree 3/4-ton within a week.)
• Driver held responsible for checking all vehicle equipment regularly
• Whole other set of requirements to be paid for driving, even in a small passenger car
• Regular medical checkups required to show driver isn't blind, psychotic or actively addicted to alcohol or drugs
• Functional English skills
• Driver deviation investigation process that might cost your license instead of pay-the-court-take-an-online-class-and-forget-it traffic tickets.

As a bicycle mechanic in the only bike shop within 30 miles, the above would likely make me a fairly wealthy man in short order...along with any of the local cab and intercity shuttle drivers who manage to keep their jobs, and the makers and sellers of good walking shoes.  As a daily cyclist and occasional pedestrian, I'd feel a hell of a lot safer on the roads, too.

[KD5NRH]

From tesla.com:

It would seem they are ahead of you.

Then it would seem either their sensors or the processing software are crap, since they ran one car straight into a fixed solid object at speed, and then tried to do exactly the same to the one in the video I posted, and at least the one in the video never gave any warning other than the subtle (and timer based, not triggered by a hazard) "put your hands back on the wheel" blink.

[zahc]

The car lobby will never let common sense laws like that through.

[dogmush]

Then it would seem either their sensors or the processing software are crap, since they ran one car straight into a fixed solid object at speed, and then tried to do exactly the same to the one in the video I posted, and at least the one in the video never gave any warning other than the subtle (and timer based, not triggered by a hazard) "put your hands back on the wheel" blink.

It's crap because it doesn't unfailingly keep you in a lane in all conditions, despite it explicitly saying in the manual that it won't and you need to drive the car? 

Here's the long and short of it: if this guy had been texting and smeared a Camry into the wall at 80 because he didn't notice the lane keep assist beep, we wouldn't be talking about it.  He tried to use a Tesla as a self driving car, which it isn't.  It's the drivers fault he plowed into a barrier at speed because he couldn't be bothered to A. drive the car, and B. RTFM and understand what the systems he was trying to use actually do.