Florida flubs background checks.

[Perd Hapley]

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/06/08/major-bureaucratic-blunder-in-florida-on-gun-background-checks-for-ccw-permits/

A previously unreported Office of Inspector General investigation found that in February 2016 the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services stopped using a FBI crime database called the National Instant Criminal Background Check System that ensures applicants who want to carry a gun do not have a disqualifying history in other states.

    The employee in charge of the background checks could not log into the system, the investigator learned. The problem went unresolved until discovered by another worker in March 2017 — meaning that for more than a year applications got approved without the required background check.

...the head of the [agency responsible for CCW background checks] is Adam Putnam, who was the NRA-supporting candidate for governor that inspired Parkland survivor David Hogg’s boycott of the Publix supermarket chain:

  times infinity. Wow, Florida. Wow.

On the other hand, though, how many problems will actually be found to have arisen from this? Permit-less carry hasn't been a problem in other states.

Or is Florida a state in which the carry permit allows you to buy a gun w/o a point-of-sale background check?

[Scout26]

While it sounds bad, chances are that Ditent Du'Nuffin and Soom Dude aren't applying for CCW permits in FL or any other state.  People that are paying $$$ for a FL CCW class and the permit fees aren't going to roll the dice on having a felony conviction in their background.

Any CCW permit that costs not only time, but also $$$ is going to be self-selecting as to those that can pass.  I would guess that less then .0001% of applicants couldn't/wouldn't pass the NICS check. 

[Hawkmoon]

Florida for me was a non-resident, obtained more for purposes of reciprocity with other states than because I ever expect to be in Florida. I already had two permits (home state and one other non-resident), so even if they had skipped my background check I had already been double checked by two other states. I suspect that a LOT of Florida's permits are non-resident, and the permit holders probably already hold permits from other states.

[Ben]

Florida for me was a non-resident, obtained more for purposes of reciprocity with other states than because I ever expect to be in Florida. I already had two permits (home state and one other non-resident), so even if they had skipped my background check I had already been double checked by two other states. I suspect that a LOT of Florida's permits are non-resident, and the permit holders probably already hold permits from other states.

I believe at one point they had actually surpassed Utah as the #1 state for non-resident permits. Mine lapses this month and I'm letting it go because Utah and Arizona let me carry in more places (at least that I visit) than FL does now. That used to not be the case, but FL has reduced (or other states have reduced with FL) where the non-resident permit is accepted.

[Fly320s]

Good.  There shouldn't be background checks anyway, so I see no problem here.

[230RN]

Good.  There shouldn't be background checks anyway, so I see no problem here.

Thank  you.  I was about to smartass off about that myself.

But every time I raise constitutional issues like that, I get dumped on for being wun uh them right-wing extremists and not woke to the fact that it's a living document and doesn't mean what it says after all.

While it sounds bad, chances are that Ditent Du'Nuffin and Soom Dude aren't applying for CCW permits in FL or any other state.  People that are paying $$$ for a FL CCW class and the permit fees aren't going to roll the dice on having a felony conviction in their background.

Any CCW permit that costs not only time, but also $$$ is going to be self-selecting as to those that can pass.  I would guess that less then .0001% of applicants couldn't/wouldn't pass the NICS check.  

Exactly.  I get ticked off when someone points out that "only" (some very low) percentage of applicants get rejected.  As if that's an indication of how it's "too easy" to pass it.  (Notwithstanding my objections to it as an infringement anyhow.)

Florida for me was a non-resident, obtained more for purposes of reciprocity with other states than because I ever expect to be in Florida. I already had two permits (home state and one other non-resident), so even if they had skipped my background check I had already been double checked by two other states. I suspect that a LOT of Florida's permits are non-resident, and the permit holders probably already hold permits from other states.

Good point.  It certainly diminishes the "EEK!" and "OMG" emotional impact of the OP's article.

Terry

[KD5NRH]

I would guess that less then .0001% of applicants couldn't/wouldn't pass the NICS check.

And most of those are probably mistakes due to similar names and such.

[Perd Hapley]

Permit me to quote the OP (me).

On the other hand, though, how many problems will actually be found to have arisen from this? Permit-less carry hasn't been a problem in other states.

Did any of you notice that the person in charge of that department is the same guy that Publix donated to, which led to that whole kerfuffle? The guy that said he's a "proud NRA sell-out"?

That's the really embarrassing part of this.

[Hawkmoon]

Did any of you notice that the person in charge of that department is the same guy that Publix donated to, which led to that whole kerfuffle? The guy that said he's a "proud NRA sell-out"?

That's the really embarrassing part of this.

Yes, duly noted. And, yes, it is embarrassing.

I've always found it curious that Florida issues gun permits through the Department of Agriculture. That doesn't make any sense at all. Now we learn that the person they put in charge of the whole background check thing was ... a mail clerk. And they apparently had just ONE person doing ALL the background checks. Then they ratcheted up the pressure on her to process them faster. It's obvious that Florida has been treating the permit process as a cash cow rather than as a legitimate public safety issue. God forbid they should assign a second person to the process if they wanted to move it faster.

(&^$)*&% politicians.

[Perd Hapley]

I've always found it curious that Florida issues gun permits through the Department of Agriculture. That doesn't make any sense at all.

It makes sense in the same way the Dept of the Treasury is in charge of security for the President of the United States.

If you check out Florida's Ag Dept website, they are in charge of the Forest Service.

Whether it's by bicycle, horse, or foot, visitors to state forests in Florida can experience first-hand the same outdoor elements that early settlers and inhabitants once experienced. In addition to providing outdoor recreation, state forest trails serve as outdoor classrooms where people of all ages can explore and learn.

So I guess the linkage is agriculture-forests-outdoor sports-shooting.

On the other hand, they also handle security licenses. 

[Fly320s]

You're thinking too hard about it.

It should be: Senior Senator-power-money-authority.

[Ben]

Yes, duly noted. And, yes, it is embarrassing.

I've always found it curious that Florida issues gun permits through the Department of Agriculture. That doesn't make any sense at all.

Often in govt, it's because a certain dept is simply set up to better handle certain processes. I used to get my fed.gov paycheck through Dept of Ag, as did the Coast Guard (at least before they switched to Homeland) because they had a really big payroll/finance dept with I guess not enough work for just Ag, so they were assigned other departments.

[Hawkmoon]

Often in govt, it's because a certain dept is simply set up to better handle certain processes.

I suppose that's why they assigned the mail clerk to run the whole background check process. And when she forgot or lost her log-in credentials she didn't think it was important enough to mention it to anyone -- for over a year, until someone else noticed. It doesn't appear they were set up particularly well (in fact, not at all) to handle the process.

[K Frame]

Posted this on my faceplace page in response to some of my putative friends losing their *expletive deleted*ing minds over it...

"It seems that some people are making a huge deal over the fact that Florida wasn't doing background checks on people who were applying for a concealed carry license because of computer access issues.

For over a year.

My question is... so what?

There are approximately 15 states that have Constitutional Carry laws in place; some have had them in place for years.

Here's the simple truth that a lot of people who are aghast over this aren't getting.

Those who are inclined to go through the permitting process are very much DISinclined to behave in a criminal fashion with the handguns that they carry.

It's a simple fact...

A criminal isn't going to apply for a license to carry a concealed handgun."

[RoadKingLarry]

Yes, duly noted. And, yes, it is embarrassing.

I've always found it curious that Florida issues gun permits through the Department of Agriculture. That doesn't make any sense at all. Now we learn that the person they put in charge of the whole background check thing was ... a mail clerk. And they apparently had just ONE person doing ALL the background checks. Then they ratcheted up the pressure on her to process them faster. It's obvious that Florida has been treating the permit process as a cash cow rather than as a legitimate public safety issue. God forbid they should assign a second person to the process if they wanted to move it faster.

(&^$)*&% politiczians.

Oklahoma's governor recently vetoed a constitutional carry bill. One of the major objections to the bill was the financial loss to DPS from loss of permit fees.
 

[Ben]

Here's the simple truth that a lot of people who are aghast over this aren't getting.

Those who are inclined to go through the permitting process are very much DISinclined to behave in a criminal fashion with the handguns that they carry.

It's a simple fact...

A criminal isn't going to apply for a license to carry a concealed handgun."

Indeed. They report this as if the applicant had zero prep work before applying, versus taking classes (often with mandatory live fire training) and showing up with fingerprint cards before they even apply. Criminals are disinclined to submit their fingerprints to local/state/fed LE.

[Hawkmoon]

Indeed. They report this as if the applicant had zero prep work before applying, versus taking classes (often with mandatory live fire training) and showing up with fingerprint cards before they even apply. Criminals are disinclined to submit their fingerprints to local/state/fed LE.

True, but ...

Florida technically requires proof of firearms safety training, but what they accept as the aforementioned proof is pretty lax. I got my first FL non-resident permit sometime around 2004, IIRC. They accept a DD-214 -- with no expiration date. So I applied for a handgun carry permit, and in 2004 I gave them a copy of my DD-214 from 1968 (36 years old), which only showed me as having qualified on the M-14 rifle (yes, the Army totally overlooked that I was also qualified on the M-1 Carbine, M16 rifle, and M1911A1 pistol). No problem, apparently.

In my home state, we need the full NRA Basic Pistol class, and it has to have been within a year of the date of application.

[dogmush]

I've always found it curious that Florida issues gun permits through the Department of Agriculture. That doesn't make any sense at all. Now we learn that the person they put in charge of the whole background check thing was ... a mail clerk. And they apparently had just ONE person doing ALL the background checks. Then they ratcheted up the pressure on her to process them faster. It's obvious that Florida has been treating the permit process as a cash cow rather than as a legitimate public safety issue. God forbid they should assign a second person to the process if they wanted to move it faster.

(&^$)*&% politicians.

In what way is this a legitimate public safety issue?   Do we actually think folks likely to be a danger to the public sneak through a permitting process now?

CCW's are a hoop non-criminals jump through so that the folks who are scared of guns can pretend bad guys don't have them.  NO CCW is a legitimate public safety issue.