Author Topic: Whiskey Delivery and Taste  (Read 1090 times)

Ben

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Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« on: June 23, 2018, 10:03:46 AM »
Interesting experiment. The thesis is that whiskey that used to be delivered by boat (say, down the Mississippi) would pick up desirable flavors during transport because the whiskey was continually being agitated in the oak barrels as the boat slowly wound it's way down the river. This versus whiskey that didn't make the journey, or whiskey delivered on smooth, modern roads by truck.

It appears in many ways, the whiskey will in fact taste better, with more complex flavors. Though the research notes  that degradants can just as easily be introduced, so it sounds kinda like, "Pays your money, takes your chances." :)

https://www.popularmechanics.com/home/food-drink/a21272152/jeffersons-whiskey-experiment/
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MillCreek

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2018, 10:13:10 AM »
^^^The former analytical chemist here strongly approves of the GCMS/LCMS testing done to actually document the chemical changes in the whiskey samples.  Very interesting, and it suggests ways to create a compound that you could use to 'spike' whiskey to give it the taste of motion-induced barrel aging.
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Ben

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2018, 10:21:19 AM »
and it suggests ways to create a compound that you could use to 'spike' whiskey to give it the taste of motion-induced barrel aging.

Interesting. I wonder how long it will take one of the small batch guys to give it a try (I guess depending on expense)? :)
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MillCreek

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2018, 10:32:45 AM »
Interesting. I wonder how long it will take one of the small batch guys to give it a try (I guess depending on expense)? :)

With the GCMS/LCMS data, it would be child's play for one of the big flavoring companies, like Synergy or International Flavor and Fragrances,  to create such a compound.

PS: I have read several literature articles, books and monographs about how flavors are created in the lab, and I have always found it fascinating.  There is still a lot of subjective art in the tweaking of the product to reach a desired flavor profile.  A lot more than just throwing a bunch of chemicals together in the beaker.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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Ben

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2018, 12:40:05 PM »

PS: I have read several literature articles, books and monographs about how flavors are created in the lab, and I have always found it fascinating.  There is still a lot of subjective art in the tweaking of the product to reach a desired flavor profile.  A lot more than just throwing a bunch of chemicals together in the beaker.

That immediately reminded me of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnXfLGcENnI

 :laugh:
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brimic

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2018, 07:32:43 PM »
A friend of mine and I did this experiment at a bar (for science)...
Each had a shot of Connemara whiskey,  to kill off a bottle, then had a shot from a freshly opened bottle.
The difference was startling.
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MillCreek

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2018, 07:53:18 PM »
^^^Which was better: the tail of the old bottle, or the beginning of the new?
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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230RN

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2018, 08:07:05 PM »
It just so happens I'm watching a mechtech show* on Jack Daniels.  Turns out that for the most part, they bottle two ways.

One way is with a blend of the whiskey from 50 barrels in order to eliminate variables, the other is where each bottle is filled with the whiskey from one barrel and dated and labeled as to which barrel it was filled from.

So apparently, storage and by extension, shipping methods, can make a difference.

I wonder what kinds of reactions they get from the two methods.

Terry, 230RN

* ETA Actually, it was only the first part of a show on Modern Marvels.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2018, 08:16:27 PM »
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

grampster

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2018, 11:14:34 PM »
^^^^^If it is true that moving the bourbon in the barrel makes it better, those 5000 or so barrels of bourbon have been moved pretty well.  Probably now $300.00 a fifth.
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freakazoid

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2018, 07:14:44 PM »
With clever marketing they could probably up sell them.
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

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French G.

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2018, 09:33:51 PM »
It just so happens I'm watching a mechtech show* on Jack Daniels.  Turns out that for the most part, they bottle two ways.

One way is with a blend of the whiskey from 50 barrels in order to eliminate variables, the other is where each bottle is filled with the whiskey from one barrel and dated and labeled as to which barrel it was filled from.

So apparently, storage and by extension, shipping methods, can make a difference.

I wonder what kinds of reactions they get from the two methods.

Terry, 230RN

* ETA Actually, it was only the first part of a show on Modern Marvels.


I am not a jack guy by any stretch, but we had a run of cruise commemorative bottles of single barrel so I got some. Two were Jack drinkable, one was carb and choke cleaner grade.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

dogmush

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2018, 10:17:52 AM »
Interesting. I wonder how long it will take one of the small batch guys to give it a try (I guess depending on expense)? :)

https://jeffersonsbourbon.com/jeffersons-ocean/

Already been done.  I had a bottle.  It was good, but not amazing, but I'm not really a Bourbon guy.

brimic

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2018, 10:34:44 AM »
^^^Which was better: the tail of the old bottle, or the beginning of the new?

Beginning of the new.
The whiskey has a strong, smooth peat smoke flavor, very weak in the killed off bottle.
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Ben

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2018, 11:48:47 AM »
https://jeffersonsbourbon.com/jeffersons-ocean/

Already been done.  I had a bottle.  It was good, but not amazing, but I'm not really a Bourbon guy.

I had actually meant what Millcreek suggested, about artificially infusing those components into a batch.

Interesting that they are doing it "the old fashioned way" though. I was quite surprised at the price. I would have thought it would be double that. I pay $85 for the higher end High West whiskies.

I'm interested in how that works on the ocean. Taking a trip on a river probably has a "more stable" variability than the route they're taking their stuff on in the ocean. I wonder how increased agitation from storms, etc. might affect specific batches, for better or worse?
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brimic

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2018, 12:27:31 PM »
Put whiskey in small sealable drum/ carboy, add Oak spirals,  build a large rock-tumbler apparatus, and let it tumble for a few weeks. Profit.

https://www.midwestsupplies.com/french-oak-infusion-spirals-heavy-toast
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freakazoid

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2018, 09:07:05 PM »
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

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HankB

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2018, 02:31:30 PM »
I thought they routinely rolled the barrels around to agitate the whisky inside and keep all the barrel staves moist.
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makattak

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Re: Whiskey Delivery and Taste
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2018, 02:37:35 PM »
I thought they routinely rolled the barrels around to agitate the whisky inside and keep all the barrel staves moist.

Routinely is significantly less movement than "constantly".
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