Author Topic: Birdshot in a home defense shotgun (Read 2919 times)

MillCreek · « **on:** June 23, 2018, 02:02:02 PM »

Does The Collective have any experience, opinions or data on using birdshot in a home defense shotgun?

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #1 on:** June 23, 2018, 02:10:47 PM »

It will, in all likelyhood, make a mess of any Bad Guy's day, though probably just by bloodying him up and stalling him long enough for you to find a more suitable means of defense.

Seriously... at home defense ranges a high dram heavy field load of #6 or #7 bird shot will be pretty darned effective. Even though it may not have the penetration potential of heavier shot it'll still pack one helluva punch, enough to get you a chance at more effective means.

Buck is still preferred for a dedicated HD gun, but if bird shot is all you have then it beats throwing rocks.

Brad

BobR · « **Reply #2 on:** June 23, 2018, 02:13:19 PM »

Should work, probably not lethal in most cases, will need to replace glass items and patch drywall if you touch it off indoors. OTOH, if you cut off the top of the shell and pour hot wax into it you will have a slug that will become birdshot upon hitting something. At least it would minimize collateral damage.

As long as you know the limitations of birdshot and work within them and are willing to accept them I don't see why not. One thing for sure, you probably won't be penetrating any interior walls at across the room distances.

bob

Ben · « **Reply #3 on:** June 23, 2018, 02:18:36 PM »

I'd rather (and do) use this than bird shot:

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/hevi-shot-hevi-duty-close-combat-home-defense-shotshell-ammo

Back in the day, before they went "tactical" with the name, it was called "Dead Coyote", and that is in fact the name of the stuff in my HD shotgun.

BobR · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2018, 02:27:35 PM »

Quote from: Ben on June 23, 2018, 02:18:36 PM

I'd rather (and do) use this than bird shot:

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/hevi-shot-hevi-duty-close-combat-home-defense-shotshell-ammo

Back in the day, before they went "tactical" with the name, it was called "Dead Coyote", and that is in fact the name of the stuff in my HD shotgun.

And if you can find a Dead Coyote choke to put on your shotgun it will keep a very tight pattern. Between the T shot and a Dead Coyote choke I would be comfortable taking 'yotes out to about 75yds.

bob

Scout26 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 23, 2018, 03:39:08 PM »

No. Just no. Birdshot is for birds. There have been numerous tests done with Birdshot (Like Box o' Truth) that shows that it fairly ineffective, especially if the target is wearing clothing.

00 Buck or slugs or even better, a home defense round as Ben mentioned. Leave the birdshot for birds.

Angel Eyes · « **Reply #6 on:** June 23, 2018, 05:47:03 PM »

Quote from: Ben on June 23, 2018, 02:18:36 PM

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/hevi-shot-hevi-duty-close-combat-home-defense-shotshell-ammo

Quote

CA WARNING -- Ammunition.
CA WARNING: This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm. Discharging firearms in poorly ventilated areas, cleaning firearms, or handling ammunition may result in exposure to lead and other substances known to cause birth defects, reproductive harm, and other serious physical injury. Have adequate ventilation at all times. Wash hands thoroughly after exposure.

So ammunition can be bad for your health. Good to know.

HeroHog · « **Reply #7 on:** June 23, 2018, 06:08:19 PM »

I always used #4 buck. Big enough but not TOO big.

There is always THIS little wonder...https://www.full30.com/video/60508e64f16c91fae812bb532f2b96c1

grampster · « **Reply #8 on:** June 23, 2018, 07:10:44 PM »

I think if one is in a position of having to shoot a home invader, I would not want him coming around later or a few years later with a monumental grudge. Use what will put him in the ground.

HankB · « **Reply #9 on:** June 23, 2018, 07:17:16 PM »

Birdshot is for birds - small birdshot is specified for SMALL birds (grouse, quail, etc.) and not large birds (turkey). Though I won't volunteer to stand in front of even a little .410 loaded with skeet ammo, if I were using a shotgun for self defense, I'd use 00 or 000 buck.

Think about this - if your assailant is a 6'5" 300 lb steroid pumped bad guy in full leathers with a handful of PCP up his nose, do you REALLY want to use something that's considered suitable for quail but NOT recommended for a 20 lb. turkey? Would even a load designed for a 20 lb turkey be suitable for something 15 times bigger and a LOT meaner?

(Didn't the lawyer Dick Cheney shot in the face with birdshot survive the experience?)

JN01 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 23, 2018, 08:21:46 PM »

Quote from: HankB on June 23, 2018, 07:17:16 PM

(Didn't the lawyer Dick Cheney shot in the face with birdshot survive the experience?)

Yeah, but it usually takes a stake through the heart or sunlight to put down a lawyer.

lee n. field · « **Reply #11 on:** June 23, 2018, 08:34:49 PM »

This popped up on my Tube of U today: Thunder Ranch, the truth about terminal ballistics.

grampster · « **Reply #12 on:** June 23, 2018, 11:12:02 PM »

Quote from: JN01 on June 23, 2018, 08:21:46 PM

Yeah, but it usually takes a stake through the heart or sunlight to put down a lawyer.

Bwaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa

T.O.M. · « **Reply #13 on:** June 23, 2018, 11:31:33 PM »

I keep my 870 loaded with the Remington Managed Recoil buckshot. It's 00 Buck, 8 pellets per shell. I like the reduced recoil, especially since (1) I might need to fire from my left shoulder, which is very recoil sensitive since I damaged it pretty badly in 2015, and (2) inside my house, I probably won'e be firing from a textbook stance.

I remember reading years ago that the key with respect to shot size and defensive use depends entirely on the range. At close rage (think across the bed) shot size is probably irrelevant. The load will barely spread, and you'll end up with a really messy single wound I once heard described as a rat hole (think about a rat chewing its way through something). Extend the range to the longer (longest in my home would be around 12 yards) and you start to get spread. With spread, you start to see lighter and smaller shot penetrate less, which negatively impacts stopping power. So larger, heavier pellets penetrate better, helping stopping power.

French G. · « **Reply #14 on:** June 23, 2018, 11:56:21 PM »

Use buck. I like #4 buck because out of two of my short guns it is minute of bad guy at seven yards. Like every minute on the target. I also like 00 and slugs. I like slugs too much probably, takes the scatter right out of scattergun, but they get things done.

AmbulanceDriver · « **Reply #15 on:** June 24, 2018, 12:35:30 AM »

As others have said, birdshot is for birds. My home defense shotgun is stoked with Federal Flite-Control 00 buck. The last round in the tube is a 3" magnum slug. I figure it's an audible and tactile reminder to "RELOAD STUPID!" That plus if for whatever reason 6 rounds of 00 buck doesn't stop it, hopefully the slug will.

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #16 on:** June 24, 2018, 12:56:59 AM »

The responses here seem to assume a human target. Perhaps the OP is concerned about a feathered fiend. An avian assailant. A bloodthirsty bird.

French G. · « **Reply #17 on:** June 24, 2018, 12:57:17 AM »

Quote from: AmbulanceDriver on June 24, 2018, 12:35:30 AM

As others have said, birdshot is for birds. My home defense shotgun is stoked with Federal Flite-Control 00 buck. The last round in the tube is a 3" magnum slug. I figure it's an audible and tactile reminder to "RELOAD STUPID!" That plus if for whatever reason 6 rounds of 00 buck doesn't stop it, hopefully the slug will.

Sound logic, but the last round being dragons breath would also fulfill that function. Talk about protective fire. I just, but somewhere there is a story about a cop who was screwing around with the things and left them in the gun. That his wife grabbed to shoot someone coming in the window. Hilarity ensued.

Mannlicher · « **Reply #18 on:** June 24, 2018, 08:28:55 AM »

Military and LEO don’t use birdshot. Gotta be a reason. 😉

cordex · « **Reply #19 on:** June 24, 2018, 04:29:52 PM »

Lots of good thoughts here, but I would ask a question in reply. What are proponents of defensive birdshot seeking from that ammunition selection?

If I had no superior shotgun ammunition I would go with it, but otherwise I stick with 00 or slug.

Ben · « **Reply #20 on:** June 24, 2018, 04:46:33 PM »

Quote from: cordex on June 24, 2018, 04:29:52 PM

Lots of good thoughts here, but I would ask a question in reply. What are proponents of defensive birdshot seeking from that ammunition selection?

If I had no superior shotgun ammunition I would go with it, but otherwise I stick with 00 or slug.

I won't speak for Millcreek, but my guess for many people is unwanted penetration. Something I had to consider during my previous 20 years of thin walled condo dwelling. Also one of the reasons I went with Dead Coyote, with the thinking that the T size shot + frangible qualities would be an adequate compromise.

Admittedly, it begs the question that if you're worried about penetrating walls with your shotgun rounds, you should also have the same worry with your +P 9mm pistol rounds.

230RN · « **Reply #21 on:** June 24, 2018, 04:48:42 PM »

Quote from: cordex on June 24, 2018, 04:29:52 PM

Lots of good thoughts here, but I would ask a question in reply. What are proponents of defensive birdshot seeking from that ammunition selection?

If I had no superior shotgun ammunition I would go with it, but otherwise I stick with 00 or slug.

I don't think anybody here is a proponent of birdshot. It's just a matter of looking at the pluses and minuses of "if that's all ya got" and where the kid's bedroom is.

For myself, I was surprised (circa mid 1970s) at how much damage an ounce of 7 1/2 shot moving at around 1200 feet per second can do to a 2 X 4 at about ten feet*. An ounce of almost anything at 10 feet and around --call it 1200 f/s --is pretty ummm.... shall we say, "impacty"?

Terry, 230RN

* Full-choke 30" barrel, upland game load. I doubt that it's much different regardless of choke or barrel length, but I only did this one time, that one time to verify my theory that "I wouldn't want to be standing in front of it." At least not at a distance of 0.8 living rooms.

zxcvbob · « **Reply #22 on:** June 24, 2018, 05:53:01 PM »

I think being on the receiving end a high-brass load of No. 4 shot would ruin somebody's day. (That's a turkey load, ain't it?) But it might not stop a determined attacker. OTOH it might, and if that's what you got...

No. 4 buckshot would be *much* better. I think those are .22" pellets.

HankB · « **Reply #23 on:** June 24, 2018, 08:16:09 PM »

Quote from: fistful on June 24, 2018, 12:56:59 AM

The responses here seem to assume a human target. Perhaps the OP is concerned about a feathered fiend. An avian assailant. A bloodthirsty bird.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHmI6YPovyg

cordex · « **Reply #24 on:** June 24, 2018, 08:35:10 PM »

Quote from: Ben on June 24, 2018, 04:46:33 PM

I won't speak for Millcreek, but my guess for many people is unwanted penetration. Something I had to consider during my previous 20 years of thin walled condo dwelling. Also one of the reasons I went with Dead Coyote, with the thinking that the T size shot + frangible qualities would be an adequate compromise.

Admittedly, it begs the question that if you're worried about penetrating walls with your shotgun rounds, you should also have the same worry with your +P 9mm pistol rounds.

As you implied your last point, I have yet to see a cartridge capable of providing worthwhile and reliable performance against an attacker that can also be stopped or made substantially less dangerous by a typical interior wall. You can pretty much choose one or the other.

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Author Topic: Birdshot in a home defense shotgun (Read 2919 times)