It's legally a good shoot, but

[just Warren]

the altercation should never have happened.

The decedent did assault the CCW but why did the CCW make himself a target when there was no need to do so? Now, one man is dead and another has killed and has to carry that with him for the rest of his life. And it was all pointless.

Don't get into arguments over anything if you're carrying. It's not your job to set right the wrongs of the world.

If someone is illegally parked, it isn't your concern. You are not the Parking Lot Avenger.

Someone cuts in line? Oh well. Someone talking too loud on the phone? Go elsewhere. Someone driving like an entitled moron? Just get away.

Don't start no drama. Once you do, you cannot control how it ends. If it turns into a fight, it is a gunfight because YOU have a gun. And do you really want to be in a gunfight? I don't. No one should!

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I just had to rant.

[Strings]

And there are ways of addressing the wrongs of the world, without turning it into a confrontation.

Honestly, the shooter is lucky the woman he engaged wasn't CCW herself: is possible that she could have seen him as a threat, and responded accordingly. The proper way to have handled this situation would have been to snap a pic with your phone, and forward to the police and store in question (I know here, the local popo LOVES getting those: they get to issue a ticket without doing any work).

Unfortunately, too many people like confrontation

[HeroHog]

Surveillance video obtained by The Post shows McGlockton walking up to Michael Drejka, 47, who was arguing with McGlockton’s girlfriend, Britany Jacobs, 24, over a handicapped parking spot at the Circle A Food store on Sunset Point Road in Clearwater on Thursday.

Detectives from the sheriff’s office said Jacobs had parked her 2016 Chrysler 2000 in a handicapped spot without a permit, leading to the argument with Drejka that prompted a witness to alert a clerk inside.

That’s when McGlockton, who is black, exited the store and approached Drejka, shoving him violently to the ground with both hands, surveillance video shows. While still on the ground, Drejka, who is white, then pulled out a gun and shot McGlockton, firing a single round that struck him in the chest, deputies said.

Is that REALLY reasonable fear of one's life? I mean, I can kinda see it from my viewpoint as a gimpy old fart but... Feels kinda "thin."

[Hawkmoon]

If someone is illegally parked, it isn't your concern. You are not the Parking Lot Avenger.

...

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I just had to rant.

No, you're not preaching to the choir. People who aren't handicapped shouldn't park in handicapped parking spaces. The female said

“He’s getting out like he’s a police officer or something, and he’s approaching me,” she said. “I minded my own business … I didn’t do anything wrong.”

Well, yes, you DID do something wrong, Britany. You violated both federal (the ADA) and state law by parking illegally in a handicapped parking space, thereby depriving a handicapped person of the use of the space reserved for them while your able-bodied child-bringer went into the store. Drejka had every right to tell the female that she shouldn't be parked in that space. I rather imagine that she copped an attitude rather than apologizing and just moving her car, and then her "man" came out and attacked Drejka.

“It’s a wrongful death,” she told the newspaper earlier Friday. “It’s messed up. Markeis is a good man … He was just protecting us, you know? And it hurts so bad.”

Protecting you from what? Harsh words? All Britany had to do was roll up her window and ignore Drejka. Instead, she opened her door and got out of the vehicle. There's no audio, but I have no doubt that she was yelling at Drejka before she got out of the vehicle, and that she got out of the vehicle so she could get even more in his face.

Bottom line: Britany got her "man" killed because she didn't feel like observing the law.

So who broke the law here? First, the female broke the law by parking where she shouldn't have parked. Then her "man" broke the law by assaulting Drejka, thereby escalating what had until then been a verbal dispute into a physical assault. Drejka had a right to defend himself, and he did so.

I have no problem with the way the incident played out.

[Perd Hapley]

Is that REALLY reasonable fear of one's life? I mean, I can kinda see it from my viewpoint as a gimpy old fart but... Feels kinda "thin."

Maybe not. Or maybe the shooter really was hurt, or already handicapped, and wouldn't have been able to get up quickly. He had, after all, just been attacked for almost no reason. (All of this is pretty speculative, as we've not much to go on.)

The NY Post is to be congratulated on its fine, objective journalism. [tears out hair]

I'm wary of the attitude that carrying a gun means you have to keep your head down, and mind your own business. There's some sense to that, but it can be taken too far. I've been carrying this idea in my head, of writing the anti-mall-ninja story. It's about a middle-aged guy that only carries a snub-nose revolver, w/ no reloads, and avoids any place where a crime might ever, conceivably happen, under any circumstances.

[Pb]

Someone violently attacked an innocent person, and was shot for it.  Sounds A-OK to me.

And I agree getting into arguments with strangers over petty stuff is stupid.  And the "girlfriend" sounds like a..... well you know.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Should someone be dead over a parking spot and a minor argument between too people? No, absolutely not.

She was in the vehicle, got *out* to engage the guy. He was at a respectable distance from her AND her vehicle and not any kind of obvious threat to her. Her baby daddy (and the only reason I'm going there is because the article made such a huge deal about the races involved, which had no baring on the story whatsoever) came up with no visible warning and shoved the guy hard from the side/behind.

It is not reasonable to expect that kind of attack for giving someone a piece of your mind. In fact, that makes me think the shoot was even more justified. If that's the kind of reaction this guy had too someone yelling at his baby momma then I would say he is a real threat to life.

[lupinus]

No one got shot over a parking space. No one got shot over race. No one got shot because of someone not minding their own business.

Someone got shot because they engaged in an unprovoked physical altercation with someone. Stop. End credits.

And yes, someone pushing you to the ground? I don't care what physical shape you're in. That's a threat to someone's life and well being.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[230RN]

Agreed on keeping a low profile when armed.  But if somebody pushes another person to the ground for whatever reason, the downed person has a legitimate claim to be in in fear of his life or severe bodily injury regardless of physical condition.  I trust nobody here has ever been kicked to death.

Advisement of the penalties (fine, towing) would probably save a lot of grief.  A lot of people seem to think having a handicapped parking area is just a nice gesture.

But "just running in for a minute" X $250 = $15,000 an hour.   

[HankB]

I'm not inclined to confront strangers - in fact, I try to avoid confrontations - so I would not have confronted someone for parking in a handicapped spot.

However, let's take a look at this -

The certified nursing assistant told the newspaper she parked in the handicap spot because the parking lot was packed. Surveillance video, however, showed several open parking spaces in front of the store prior to the deadly shooting

So she certainly is a liar.

I minded my own business … I didn’t do anything wrong

No, you parked in a space reserved for the handicapped. So you DID do something wrong, and lied again.

McGlockton, who is black, exited the store and approached Drejka, shoving him violently to the ground with both hands, surveillance video shows.

The deceased escalated a verbal disagreement into a violent physical assault - he made a catastrophic error in his victim selection process by initiating physical violence. (One wonders if he had a prior arrest record.)

I shed no tears for the elimination of a violent perp from the gene pool. A pity these people passed on their genes.

AND . . . I'm glad there's video, so there won't be any of this "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" nonsense.

[zxcvbob]

...I've been carrying this idea in my head, of writing the anti-mall-ninja story. It's about a middle-aged guy that only carries a snub-nose revolver, w/ no reloads, and avoids any place where a crime might ever, conceivably happen, under any circumstances.

Hey! That's getting a bit personal, don'cha think?   

[just Warren]

Drejka didn't need to say or do a thing. That's the point. Don't aggravate a situation.

Yeah she parked liked an idiot. But so what? What is the possible upside, (versus what could have (and did) happen), to him personally or society as a whole for him to do anything about it?

And yes, once he was attacked he had the right to defend himself. That's not the issue. Nor is anything the woman said. Yeah, she's entitled and clueless and there is a whole culture of these sorts of folks one would do best to avoid, so avoid them.

If you don't start a thing there's a much lower chance of anything starting.

Don't be the guy who starts the thing.

[MillCreek]

We had a local case a year or so ago in which an elderly male was pushed at a gas station, fell, struck his head and died several days later from the head injury.  The assailant was convicted and received a substantial sentence.  You can never predict how a fall is going to turn out, especially an accelerated fall by someone shoving you.

[230RN]

Warren remarked,

Yeah she parked liked an idiot. But so what? What is the possible upside, (versus what could have (and did) happen), to him personally or society as a whole for him to do anything about it?

Well, "society as a whole" regards it as important enough to provide substantial penalties for parking  there without authorization.

I agree that he might have done better by ignoring it, or advising her politely that there are penalties for doing it and moving  on...

...but, she shouldn't have parked there in the first place, and Boy Friend shouldn't have been physically aggressive about  the matter.

As I said, a lot of people think handicapped spaces are set up as a mere courtesy, a nice gesture, no more, and oh, what the hell, I'm only going in for a minute anyhow.  Advising them of the penalties might be doing them a favor.

[gunsmith]

he should have called the parking nazis and let the professionals deal with it.
showed no situational awareness either , waited far to long to shoot.

I get it though, Markeis was one of these ghetto types that think the ability to beat someone up gives them the right to beat someone up.

Drejka should have called it in. He's very obviously not a warrior, if you get out of your car to confront a woman W/kids there is a good chance there is a male who will ( right or wrong ) take umbrage.

So, imo - it was a mistake but I'm only taking it as a learning video, gotta remember to keep an eye open when I'm berating women

[zxcvbob]

It's unfortunate that someone died over a parking space, but not all *that* unfortunate because the deceased is the one who decided that was the hill to die on.  I hope in retrospect he thought it was worth it.

I feel sorry for the shooter, and the kid.  Nobody else.

[Perd Hapley]

Some of you either haven't seen the video, or you have information the rest of us don't.

The video in the NY Post story doesn't indicate the shooter was anything but polite to the woman or the deceased. Maybe he called her a few kind words, but I don't think we know that yet, if we ever will.

If the advice on offer is to never criticize people's actions when out in public, then fine, but should that really have anything to do with whether you carry? If telling a stranger they're doing something wrong is that dangerous, then it should always be avoided, whether armed or not.

Personally, I like to avoid interacting with people I don't already know and like, but I fear that this isolationist attitude may be one reason why there are so many horror stories about police interactions out there. We're calling them into situations we ought to handle ourselves. I don't know for certain that applies here, though.

But if somebody pushes another person to the ground for whatever reason, the downed person has a legitimate claim to be in in fear of his life or severe bodily injury regardless of physical condition.  I trust nobody here has ever been kicked to death.

There's no internet in heaven.

We had a local case a year or so ago in which an elderly male was pushed at a gas station, fell, struck his head and died several days later from the head injury.  The assailant was convicted and received a substantial sentence.  You can never predict how a fall is going to turn out, especially an accelerated fall by someone shoving you.

The guy had already been shoved to the ground before he decided to pull out his gun, so the second point doesn't apply. As for him getting kicked, the deceased was already backing away before shots were fired. That doesn't make it a bad shoot, but it might suggest that merely drawing his gun was enough.

But I DO NOT fault the man for shooting. As I mentioned, we don't know what condition he was in after the fall. It took him long enough to get to his feet, and he seemed pretty dazed once he did get up. I'm guessing he shot because he was surprised, and slightly injured, and feared for his life. The other guy was unharmed, towering above him, and obviously violent.

[Hawkmoon]

I trust nobody here has ever been kicked to death.

I was, but I lived to talk about it.


Wait ...

[Ben]

I'm conflicted on this one for a number of reasons.

I do not like the shot after the guy was starting to back off. Had it been a split second after the shooter went down, I might have another opinion, but it sure looked to me like the aggressor was starting to back away after the gun came out. That to me would be the time to keep the gun up in a defensive position. However I wasn't there, and I'm not going to make a call based on the camera position of a blurry video.

That said, the aggressor pushed HARD. There didn't appear to be any "Hey, back off!" notice. He just saw a guy who was smaller/weaker than him and attacked. It was a pure bully move, IMO. I would be more inclined to think otherwise had I seen him rushing out the door and running straight for the other guy. That might have indicated he feared for his girlfriend's safety. But he didn't. He walked out in an almost nonchalant manner, and when he got within arms reach, he attacked. Sorry, but that to me is a bully move.

As far as overly avoiding situations, I guess I generally do when I'm packing because it seems prudent to do so in our current society with current views on self-defense and guns. I'm likely to be more of a loudmouth without the gun. That is, likely to be. I generally try my best to mind my own beezwax on everyday annoyances, armed or not, but would be more likely to be a buttinski without a gun on my hip. This does not include butting into situations where it looks like someone is in trouble. I've not run into that kind of situation, but if I did, I hope wearing a gun will not cause me to hesitate to act for fear of legal reprisals (even if the gun never leaves the holster).

Wherein the problem lies. "An Armed Society is a Polite Society". If we were to really live by that, the bully would have never made a shove to the ground his first response. Perhaps the guy who was shoved would not have approached the woman, or would have approached her in a different way. In an armed and polite society, only a moron physically attacks someone the way the guy in the video did if the someone is possibly carrying some variant of Sam Colt's equalizer. I will bet real money the shover never for a second considered that his victim might be armed. He fully thought he had the upper hand.

In many ways, to go on a tangent, this is why we have all the Internet / social media vitriol. A bunch of people who think they can do what they want with no repercussions, because they're safe behind their keyboards. They say things they would never say when their nose is within reach of someone's fist. Just like we have people that will make a physical response their first response, especially against someone who looks weaker, because they don't think they have a need to be polite, because it's not ingrained into them to think, "armed society - be polite".

[HankB]

It's unfortunate that someone died over a parking space, but not all *that* unfortunate because the deceased is the one who decided that was the hill to die on. 

No - someone died after initiating a violent physical assault. Until then, there was only a verbal exchange, and nobody was harmed.

[HeroHog]

No, I didn't see the video and I can't say what I would have done in the situation until I'm IN that situation. I would HOPE that I shoot as a LAST RESORT but if I feel my life/physical well being is reasonably at risk, bang bang baby.

[230RN]

Funny, Ben, I deleted a remark as to how the guy's gun helped to make our society a wee bit more polite.

Well, in the long run, anyhow.

I cut it before I posted on the theory that it was impolitic, considering there was a death involved.

[Hawkmoon]

I'm conflicted on this one for a number of reasons.

I do not like the shot after the guy was starting to back off. Had it been a split second after the shooter went down, I might have another opinion, but it sure looked to me like the aggressor was starting to back away after the gun came out. That to me would be the time to keep the gun up in a defensive position. However I wasn't there, and I'm not going to make a call based on the camera position of a blurry video.

I thought the same thing the first time I watched the video. When I watched it again, I realized that the first two or three shots that were fired came during the gap when I thought the attacker was backing away. It now appears to me that he was backing away because he had already been hit at least twice. I wish I could slow it down so I could get a more accurate shot count. I'm pretty sure there were at least three shots fired, and possibly four.

The other thing is that there is no audio. Just as we don't know what the shooter said to the woman or what the woman said to the shooter, we also don't know what the assailant said to the shooter before, during, or immediately after violently shoving him ass over teakettle.

[De Selby]

The guy had argued over that parking spot so many times he’d been told by the shop owner to just leave it be.

Man with young children sees someone shouting at his wife and overreacts. Armed self appointed parking lot monitor shoots in response.

Overall, not exactly a poster video for gun owners. The dead guy clearly overreacted, but that’s easy to do when some weirdo is shouting at mommy in front of your five year old.

How many of you think those kids are going to grow up agreeeing that SYG or gun rights at all are important?

[freakazoid]

The guy had argued over that parking spot so many times he’d been told by the shop owner to just leave it be.

I wonder why they thought the law didn't apply to them and that they could park wherever they want...