Washington States Refuses Sea Port Access to Other States

[Ben]

This should be an interesting interstate commerce case. WA is refusing to allow the building of a coal export terminal so that other states can export their coal products. If coastal states can just refuse to allow interior states access to the sea based on whether the coastal state likes the product or not, that could get ugly.

I suppose the sticking point is building the infrastructure on Washington State soil, but there must be some federal law about that, or individual coastal states could basically control all shipping transported exports (and imports).

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/11/washington-state-in-legal-battle-with-6-states-after-it-refuses-to-build-coal-export-terminal.html

[RoadKingLarry]

If a state can refuse a product to be exported from their ports couldn't then a state refuse to allow water that flows through "their" river to pass on to such a state?

[MillCreek]

The coal port issue has gotten a lot of play in local media. Opposition to coal exports to China as a contributor to global warming and pollution are major factors to the opposition regardless of what the Governor and Legislature are claiming now.  The coal-producing states think it is just fine to shift the financial and environmental costs of the port to Washington. 

What the Fox News article curiously does not mention is that all of the current coal trains go rumbling right through Washingon up to the bulk terminals in Vancouver, BC.  The Westshore Terminal facility there is North America's largest coal export port, doing several million tons per year more than Norfolk, VA, the second largest coal export port in North America.  The coal trains go right through Snohomish County on their way to Canada, and I sit at the train crossing for about five-six minutes for the train to go through.  They generally have six locomotives.

[freakazoid]

Can a state force another to build infrastructure?

[BobR]

We have coal trains passing through Spokane on what seems to be an hourly schedule. This whole coal export facility thing has been going on for a while here in WA, I am so glad the other states are suing WA state over this.

bob

[just Warren]

Damn, if only Hillary had been elected. All the coal jobs would have disappeared by now and this wouldn't be an issue.

[MechAg94]

Can a state force another to build infrastructure?

The article the says Washington State is denying the permit.  I didn't see where it says who was paying for it.

[MillCreek]

We have coal trains passing through Spokane on what seems to be an hourly schedule. This whole coal export facility thing has been going on for a while here in WA, I am so glad the other states are suing WA state over this.

bob

From my reading here, even though the current trains go up to Vancouver to be shipped to China, the mines want a port in Longview to cut shipping costs and not have to pay the tax that Canada charges per ton of coal loaded.

[Scout26]

Back when I worked for OCP we imported 2700-2800 containers per year.  Most came in through LA.  However, I was (we were) approached by the Port of Portland to take in gaylord sized bags of various grains on pallets, load them into the containers and ship them back to the PoP for shipment to China.  It reduced our shipping costs dramatically because we were sending full containers back to China.  IIRC our rail costs dropped to almost zero.

And I went from being a cost center on the P&L to a Profit Center (at least during our 8 month off season.)   

But, given what I've read about Oregon, the Portlandians would probably have kittens knowing that dirty nasty coal was being loaded onto ships in their port (which IIRC, is well outside the city.)

A quick google maps satellite shot shows that the port appears to be extremely under utilized.   I smell profit !!!!

[Ben]

From my reading here, even though the current trains go up to Vancouver to be shipped to China, the mines want a port in Longview to cut shipping costs and not have to pay the tax that Canada charges per ton of coal loaded.

I would expect eliminating the crossing of an international border, and all that entails, a big part of this. I would also say that if someone was expecting WA to completely fund this, then WA may have a case (if we look at this as widgets instead of coal). But I'm guessing that's not the case, which brings me back to wondering how this will play out in the states rights/interstate commerce/federal arena(s).

And actually, even though Warren was kinda poking fun, I wonder if at least some in the WA government are hoping they can push this off until a dem administration that will again attempt to eliminate coal, and thus take the burden of the fight from one Washington to the other Washington.

[MillCreek]

^^^Again, from my experience living here and consuming the local media, the current Governor, Jay Inslee, sees himself as a self-appointed change agent on climate change and likely has his sights set for higher office some day.  I actually knew him back when he was a small-town lawyer near Yakima, and would file the occasional malpractice suit against one of my clients in Yakima.  He is one of the leading proponents of a voter initiative on the ballot next month imposing a carbon 'fee' in Washington.  Earlier carbon 'tax' proposals failed to get through the Legislature or were rejected by the voters.  If it passes, as it probably will due to the Seattle/King County area having the most voters in the state, it will add at least 14 cents per gallon of gasoline, and that will be going up every year.  Estimates are that the 'fee' will raise $ 1 billion per year, and an independent panel will pick projects to reduce fossil fuel emissions and offset climate change.

If this gets me a free hydrogen-powered car and a home fuel cell/fueling station, I am all for it.  Until such time, I am skeptical.

[BobR]

^^^

If that passes and they do add more taxes to gasoline all it will do is cause me to drive to Idaho more often for gas. We already have one of the highest taxes on gas in the country, I guess the Governor wants to be the highest. Besides him looking forward at higher office we have a Attorney General that embraces liberalism like a religion who I am sure will be mounting a bid for Governor and beyond in the future. The siren call of Nevada gets louder each day.

bob

[MillCreek]

^^^Wait until the assault weapon control initiative passes, and you have to complete a special training class in order to buy a 10/22.

[BobR]

^^^Wait until the assault weapon control initiative passes, and you have to complete a special training class in order to buy a 10/22.

Among other lunacy such as making your health record available.

A signed application to purchase a pistol or semiautomatic assault rifle shall constitute a waiver of confidentiality and written request that the health care authority, mental health institutions, and other health care facilities release, to an inquiring court or law enforcement agency, information relevant to the applicant's eligibility to purchase a pistol or semiautomatic assault rifle to an inquiring court or law enforcement agency.

And this will pass because it is for the safety of the children and between Seattle and King County the rest of the state doesn't have to ability to stop it.

And yes, I get alerts every day from Zillow and Realtor.com on new listings in Pahrump.

bob

[MillCreek]

^^^As the risk manager who has to set policy on these record releases, I note that the current statutory language does not actually compel me to release this information to an inquiring court or law enforcement agency.  The language also does not define 'information relevant' to purchase eligibility.  I think that if I ever get one of these requests, I am going to insist that the patient sign off on a release of information before I release any records.  If the patient refuses, the agency issuing the permit can take whatever action they deem appropriate.  If the Court wants to issue me a subpoena for the records, although I don't see a mechanism for doing this, more power to them.

The VA is pretty gung-ho on HIPAA/privacy compliance, so I will be interested to see if the VA facilities in the state come up with a process for this.

[tokugawa]

WA + D =CA

[Hawkmoon]

Among other lunacy such as making your health record available.

A signed application to purchase a pistol or semiautomatic assault rifle shall constitute a waiver of confidentiality and written request that the health care authority, mental health institutions, and other health care facilities release, to an inquiring court or law enforcement agency, information relevant to the applicant's eligibility to purchase a pistol or semiautomatic assault rifle to an inquiring court or law enforcement agency.

And this will pass because it is for the safety of the children and between Seattle and King County the rest of the state doesn't have to ability to stop it.

Many years ago, on another forum, someone (not me) offered the opinion that if you ever need mental/psychological counseling, go to another city, use an assumed name, and pay in cash.

It's getting to the point where we all need to have a second identity just to go to the doctor -- any doctor.

[MillCreek]

Many years ago, on another forum, someone (not me) offered the opinion that if you ever need mental/psychological counseling, go to another city, use an assumed name, and pay in cash.

It's getting to the point where we all need to have a second identity just to go to the doctor -- any doctor.

I have actually seen this happen a fair amount with military personnel in this area. It is often personnel who fear losing their Top Secret clearance or will be kicked out of the nuclear personnel reliability program if it became known that they were in therapy or had psychiatric problems.