This killing could have been avoided.

[just Warren]

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=uX70K_1537453032

Why are you escalating a boundary dispute of this sort to where someone gets shot to death?

It's trash in an alley. Call the code people who handle that stuff. Start a paper trail, maybe get a restraining order. If he continues let the cops handle it.

It does sound like the decedent was an aggressive bully prone to violence just based on that short video but that doesn't mean you have to meet him on his level.

And you sure as hell don't invite him to swing at you! Just be calm and go on with your life.

Just walk away. Is whatever the dispute was over worth whatever it's going to cost even if you're acquitted?

[Fly320s]

Well, that was a whole bunch of stupid in one video.

[dogmush]

Dead guy apparently has quite the history of violent outbursts and run ins with the police.

Flys320's is correct there is a lot of dumbassery on display there.

Probably not a great idea to start a fight with the neighborhood crazy *expletive deleted*hole over a mattress in the trash.

Definitely not a great idea to tell two people holding guns you are going to kill them, then charge.


Side note: since I knew how the video was going to end, when the camera operator busts out with "You are NOT going to shoot my husband!" I heard Morgan Freeman's narration in my head "They were going to shoot her husband."  What can I say, dark sense of humor.

[Ben]

I agree there was stupid all around. If the son would have kept his mouth shut I would assign less stupid to team skins. The father was at least talking in a calm voice, though "go ahead" will not help him in court. Team shirts however, showed all signs of being a bully.

The video leaves out some information. Why was the guy taking his trash out with a gun? Nothing wrong with that except all we see is an unholstered handgun. If he were wearing a holstered handgun, that shouldn't cause an eye blink. Maybe the neighbor came over after the mattress was dragged out and started yelling so the father walked out with gun in hand?

I also couldn't tell if angry man charged them or was standing in one place or was walking away. Of course "I'm gonna take that *expletive deleted*ing gun from you" probably gives me some idea.

Anyway, as mentioned above, call freakin' code enforcement.

[Devonai]

According to the news reports, the guy in orange was illegally dumping the mattress, and the father and son took issue with it.  Father and son are also being charged with murder.

Tweak just a few things and it would have been a different story.  Dad puts on a holster and keeps his pistol in it.  Son leaves the shotgun at home.  Dad doesn't egg on orange shirt guy.  Change those facts, and it could have been self-defense.  But as it stands, they're in hot water.

[MechAg94]

I figure a jury will likely decide that after a trial since they are already charged.  I guess it is a question of whether the jury thinks a murder charge is justified.

[MechAg94]

I was thinking there is no duty to retreat in Texas, but we can't really see what happened right before the shooting.  If they were in the alley, that likely means they weren't on their on property which may mean carrying the guns in hand is a problem.  If they were on their own property, that is perfectly legal.  They didn't advance on the guy and it looked like they didn't actually point the firearms at the guy until the very end, but I may have missed something.  

If the guy was dumping trash, calling the cops and letting this guy get aggressive with them would have been better.  Makes me wonder if there was a history of that.

[Ben]

Ah, interesting on the mattress -  I thought the skins were dumping it. Then coming out to confront loudmouth with guns in hand is extremely problematic.

Though not exactly pointing, when the son took his shotgun from the "redneck" position to kinda sorta "ready" position, that could be construed as aggressive. Had he been properly holding it for defense to begin with, then it might not have looked as bad.

[dogmush]

My understanding from news links found in another forum is that the chain of events went like this:

Shirt illegally dumped mattress.

Skins through it back over Shirt's fence.

Shirt took exception,  brought it back out, and started threatening Skins from alley.

I am unclear how Skins ended up armed in the alley. If they came out because Skins was yelling, that's a problem.  If they were dumping their trash in fire team strength because they have a huge, violent crazy neighbor and got ambushed, that's less of an issue.

[Perd Hapley]

I don't know what kiling might be, so I plan to avoid it altogether.

[230RN]

I was beginning to think this was one of those made-for-you-tube dramas, but it was apparently reported in actual news media.  So it was real.

When jerks collide.

Mutual escalation.  I wonder how many Bud Lights were involved on both sides.

[MechAg94]

Another lesson, if you aren't in your own house, wear a decent shirt. 

That and standing your ground when not on your own property is risky.  Make dang sure you are in the right as the people looking at it after the fact may not see things in exactly the same light as you do.

[MechAg94]

If nothing else, this may now become a good training video for other gun owners around the country. 

[Phyphor]

Yeah, in what NOT to do.

Seriously, was ANY of this idiocy necessary?

[De Selby]

Looks like he got shotgunned in the head.

A bat or something got tossed at the old guy. Couldn’t tell if that was before the shots or after.

I can understand being pissed off at the guns being pulled over a dumped mattress. Can also understand being armed with a guy that aggressive - he didn’t seem the least bit cautious or fearful on sight of the guns.

[makattak]

I can understand being pissed off at the guns being pulled over a dumped mattress. Can also understand being armed with a guy that aggressive - he didn’t seem the least bit cautious or fearful on sight of the guns.

There was a whole lot of stupid, foolish bravado in that clip.

"Take a swing at me!" "Point that gun at me!" (Among the expletives and taunts as well.)

GENERALLY, one would expect that even if you are in the right, the presence of a firearms by the other party would suggest you calm down.

This is what can happen if you escalate AFTER a firearm is presented.

[Phyphor]

Yeah, this was a "go back in your house and call the cops" situation, not a "stay out there and potentially have to shoot someone / get shot" situation.

[KD5NRH]

Another lesson, if you aren't in your own house, wear a decent shirt.

This; watching any of the reality cop shows makes it pretty clear that wearing a shirt makes it at least 85% less likely you're going to jail.

[Hawkmoon]

This; watching any of the reality cop shows makes it pretty clear that wearing a shirt makes it at least 85% less likely you're going to jail.

Unless it's a wife beater shirt ...

[230RN]

De Selby said,

"I can understand being pissed off at the guns being pulled over a dumped mattress. Can also understand being armed with a guy that aggressive - he didn’t seem the least bit cautious or fearful on sight of the guns."

That's why I thought maybe it was a staged event for you-toob. (But it was actually reported in the press.)

[makattak]

Side note: since I knew how the video was going to end, when the camera operator busts out with "You are NOT going to shoot my husband!" I heard Morgan Freeman's narration in my head "They were going to shoot her husband."  What can I say, dark sense of humor.

Because of this post, when I watched it, that same voice popped into my head, too.

[KD5NRH]

Two dangerous hotheads are in jail, one in the morgue.  Maybe it could have been avoided, but for the sake of their potential future victims, should it have?  I mean, somebody in this little testosterone-fueled threesome was eventually going to be involved in a wrongful death or serious injury, so isn't it really better for everyone else that it wasn't some innocent third party that pushed them to the point of murder?