The illegal invader caravan thread

[charby]

It’s funny how when someone calls for less .gov bullshit governing employment the response is always “butbutbut you want child labor!” Or less environmental regs then it’s  “but you want rivers on fire!”

Because some people understand why some regulations were created in the first place. Someone or someones was wrongfully exploiting people or the common good.

Here is an example why we have minimum wage laws.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/03/09/us/the-boys-in-the-bunkhouse.html

[Scout26]

The above doesn't justify the minimum wage.  Minimum wage came about in 1938, as part of Roosevelt's "New Deal"  The above is about exploiting the mentally handicapped.  They were failed by their families and the person(s) put in charge to take care of them.  It has nothing to do with minimum wage.

People who are able to negotiate their wages should be allowed to do so.  Your story is about families that washed their hands of members who needed their care and protection.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQj1qlsjVoM

[Scout26]

It also shows that despite all you beloved regulations, these people were still allowed to be exploited for over 30 years as "the system" turned are blind eye to them.

[charby]

The above doesn't justify the minimum wage.  Minimum wage came about in 1938, as part of Roosevelt's "New Deal"  The above is about exploiting the mentally handicapped.  They were failed by their families and the person(s) put in charge to take care of them.  It has nothing to do with minimum wage.

People who are able to negotiate their wages should be allowed to do so.  Your story is about families that washed their hands of members who needed their care and protection.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQj1qlsjVoM

You and I are not going to agree on this subject. I've seen too many shenanigans pulled by business owners/management to even think about deregulating labor laws. Day in court takes too long, so to me that isn't an option either.

[Ben]

Looks like it might start getting sporty today. A group made a rush to overwhelm the border and apparently tear gas has been deployed.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mexico-denies-deal-with-white-house-on-migrants-as-trump-threatens-to-close-entire-border

[Angel Eyes]

San Ysidro port of entry has been closed:

https://fox5sandiego.com/2018/11/25/cbp-suspends-all-traffic-at-the-san-ysidro-port-of-entry/

[Andiron]

Again,  are we just our of AC 130s and A10s?  Literal invasion, happening now.

[Ben]

And a Senator has to allude to tear gas as chemical warfare... 

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/11/25/sen-brian-schatz-deletes-dopey-tweet-accusing-border-patrol-of-using-chemical-weapons-on-migrant-rock-throwers/

[charby]

Again,  are we just our of AC 130s and A10s?  Literal invasion, happening now.

If that happened, I'm pretty sure a lot of nations would declare war on the US, World War III would in North America.

[Ron]

The military being there is probably mostly theater.

Trump is squeezing Mexico to make them deal with the problem on their side.

Shutting down the border as he threatened will cost a lot of people money. Powerful people who will also put pressure on Mexico.

Trump is pretty sly.

[bedlamite]

If that happened, I'm pretty sure a lot of nations would declare war on the US, World War III would in North America.

I doubt that. There would be lots of bluster, UN resolutions, etc. But nothing would really happen with foreign governments. The next caravan would likely stop in its tracks. The biggest problem would be that the left in this country would collectively lose it's *expletive deleted*it and we would have riots in the bigger cities, congressional hearings until the cows come home, and the House would probably impeach Trump.

[Angel Eyes]

I doubt that. There would be lots of bluster, UN resolutions, etc. But nothing would really happen with foreign governments.

Exactly.  Other nations (including Russia and China) have done worse and nothing has come of it.

The biggest problem would be that the left in this country would collectively lose it's *expletive deleted*it and we would have riots in the bigger cities

Maybe.  Maybe they'll settle down because they don't want to be targeted.

and the House would probably impeach Trump.

They're going to try that anyway.

[RoadKingLarry]

the left in this country would collectively lose it's *expletive deleted*it and we would have riots in the bigger cities, congressional hearings until the cows come home, and the House would probably impeach Trump.

So...pretty much status quo.

[Andiron]

If that happened, I'm pretty sure a lot of nations would declare war on the US, World War III would in North America.

I absolutely disagree,  did you even think that out  ?

The border needs to be more than some magic line that you cross to get free *expletive deleted*it.

And Mexico is welcome to bring it on,  apparently they need reminded about once a century.

[bedlamite]

So...pretty much status quo.

yep.

[Hawkmoon]

Impeachment is the congressional equivalent of a grand jury bringing charges. The next step is a "trial," which is held before the Senate. Unlikely that the Senate would convict Trump.

Remember, Bill Clinton was impeached ... but he wasn't convicted, so he remained in office.

I don't think the Ds would really impeach. What would happen if they succeeded in getting Trump out of office? President Pence, that's what, and he's more of a true conservative Christian than Trump could ever dream of being. President Pence would be the Democrats' worst nightmare. I don't think they really want that, but all the bluster makes for good theater, and rakes in the money.

[slingshot]

I don't like this situation at all.... it makes the US look like that bad guy and we are essentially the land of plenty for these people.  They just need to follow the rules and most of them would get in.

I am not familiar with the various visas, but a work visa easily obtained would be very good start.  The problem is that many of these people essentially disappear into our cities and even if they are issued some sort of SS, it doesn't mean they will pay any taxes.  Try tracking them down? 

The "wall" is part of the answer in controlling our border with Mexico.  Mexico needs to make it more difficult for these people to form "caravans".  The problem there is that political forces in the US are at work and there is a lot of money behind those forces to "help" these people.

It is time for Congress to get off their butts and apply some common sense to this issue.  The Democrats will win the voter registration race.  The sad part of that equation is that Republicans have historically been more effective with dealing with social issues.  But the Democrats somehow always come out smelling like a rose.

[Hawkmoon]

I don't like this situation at all.... it makes the US look like that bad guy and we are essentially the land of plenty for these people.  They just need to follow the rules and most of them would get in.

I agree that they should follow the rules, but I don't agree that most of them would get in. There are criteria for being granted asylum, and I seriously doubt many of them satisfy those criteria. There are also quotas for immigrant visas, and there are people ahead of this rabble in the queue. They aren't interested in playing y the rules, because they want to jump the line.

I have zero sympathy for them.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/11/invasion-honduran-migrant-says-20000-will-march-through-vehicle-lanes-at-border-says-applying-for-asylum-is-waste-of-time/

Gómez and several others told the Epoch Times that they plan to enter illegally and are unlikely to apply for asylum.

“It’s a waste of time. It’s a process that takes months and years—it’s a long time,” Gómez said.

Another migrant, Frank Martinez, had a similar plan.

“I personally, and I know many people will attempt to do the same thing—it’s to cross illegally. I will enter illegally,” Martinez said. “Because we want a better life, and I’m in a hurry.”

Though the migrants were offered asylum in Mexico, they have no plans to take them up on their offer. Instead, they hope to storm the border to the US.

“It’s not my intention, to stay here, in this country. My intention is the United States,” Martinez said.

[freakazoid]

Looks like Mexico is doing a little something about it, http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mexico-deporting-nearly-500-migrants-after-california-border-blitz/ar-BBQ5K1h?ocid=ientp
It also mentions that Mexico also closed down their side of the port of entry, I had thought only the US closed down.

[MechAg94]

I don't like this situation at all.... it makes the US look like that bad guy and we are essentially the land of plenty for these people.  They just need to follow the rules and most of them would get in.

I am not familiar with the various visas, but a work visa easily obtained would be very good start.  The problem is that many of these people essentially disappear into our cities and even if they are issued some sort of SS, it doesn't mean they will pay any taxes.  Try tracking them down? 

The "wall" is part of the answer in controlling our border with Mexico.  Mexico needs to make it more difficult for these people to form "caravans".  The problem there is that political forces in the US are at work and there is a lot of money behind those forces to "help" these people.

It is time for Congress to get off their butts and apply some common sense to this issue.  The Democrats will win the voter registration race.  The sad part of that equation is that Republicans have historically been more effective with dealing with social issues.  But the Democrats somehow always come out smelling like a rose.

Makes us look bad to who?  Anyone we really care about?  That really isn't a good reason to set policy.

And who is really trying to make us look bad?  That would be our Main Stream Media organizations. 

The immigration laws have been screwed up for decades.  It will be a major fight to get any changes.  Lots of businesses want Congress to treat those laws like the tax code.  Full of loopholes for their use.

[Ron]

Makes us look bad to who?  Anyone we really care about?  That really isn't a good reason to set policy.

And who is really trying to make us look bad?  That would be our Main Stream Media organizations.  

The immigration laws have been screwed up for decades.  It will be a major fight to get any changes.  Lots of businesses want Congress to treat those laws like the tax code.  Full of loopholes for their use.

My liberal coworkers are absolutely appalled and embarrassed by Trump, they are absolutely concerned about what “the world” thinks of us.

[Ben]

My liberal coworkers are absolutely appalled and embarrassed by Trump, they are absolutely concerned about what “the world” thinks of us.

It continues to be of interest to me that the left complains so loudly about our "Machiavellian" immigration policy when it is much, much more liberal than that of Australia, New Zealand, Canada, MEXICO, etc.

[Ron]

It continues to be of interest to me that the left complains so loudly about our "Machiavellian" immigration policy when it is much, much more liberal than that of Australia, New Zealand, Canada, MEXICO, etc.

Absolutely (couldn’t figure out how to get that third “absolutely” into my previous post).

[slingshot]

I agree that they should follow the rules, but I don't agree that most of them would get in. There are criteria for being granted asylum, and I seriously doubt many of them satisfy those criteria. There are also quotas for immigrant visas, and there are people ahead of this rabble in the queue. They aren't interested in playing y the rules, because they want to jump the line.

I have zero sympathy for them.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/11/invasion-honduran-migrant-says-20000-will-march-through-vehicle-lanes-at-border-says-applying-for-asylum-is-waste-of-time/

The rules for asylum are fairly stringent.  It is the proof of such that is the problem.  I suspect in most cases we have been giving many the benefit of the doubt but that has stopped with this wave.  I do have sympathy for them as I understand that they simply want jobs to feed their families.  A lot of the money gets sent back to their families south of the border as I understand it.  The central American countries like this as it feeds their economies.

We need a wall of sorts with enforcement.  We shouldn't have to keep these people in the US feeding and caring for them while they wait for some sort of court resolution.  I doubt Mexico wants them either....  So, part of the solution is rigorous border enforcement along the Southern Mexico border.  The US has to enforce its borders or we have no country at all.  Kind of like the fence wars years ago when folks were migrating west and setting up farms in the open grazing portions of the west.  Led to a lot of trouble.  The farmers won, but we can't loose the border fight.

[MechAg94]

The rules for asylum are fairly stringent.  It is the proof of such that is the problem.  I suspect in most cases we have been giving many the benefit of the doubt but that has stopped with this wave.  I do have sympathy for them as I understand that they simply want jobs to feed their families.  A lot of the money gets sent back to their families south of the border as I understand it.  The central American countries like this as it feeds their economies.

We need a wall of sorts with enforcement.  We shouldn't have to keep these people in the US feeding and caring for them while they wait for some sort of court resolution.  I doubt Mexico wants them either....  So, part of the solution is rigorous border enforcement along the Southern Mexico border.  The US has to enforce its borders or we have no country at all.  Kind of like the fence wars years ago when folks were migrating west and setting up farms in the open grazing portions of the west.  Led to a lot of trouble.  The farmers won, but we can't loose the border fight.

I have heard discussions lately about the cost of illegally entering the US.  It costs a lot of money.  The cartells and others try to control that sort of access and charge a lot.  It is actually not the "starving poor" that are traveling from South America.  Now I am not sure if that is who is in these caravans since someone else paid for these people to move North. 

The other side of that is there are poor and starving people all over the world.  We cannot take them all.  We don't have the room.  I have heard it said that we get away with liberal immigration policies because countries like India or Pakistan are an ocean away.  Otherwise, we would be flooded with a lot more illegal immigrants than we have now.