Author Topic: On Validating Ballots  (Read 4320 times)

Ben

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On Validating Ballots
« on: November 15, 2018, 08:58:11 AM »
More from Florida.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/florida-voters-have-until-saturday-to-fix-signature-issue-federal-judge-says

This is kinda a tangent from the elections.

 I have always been a proponent of voter ID, but it has to be done right. This "signature discrepancy" thing actually got me wondering if any of my mail-in ballots have ever been tossed without me knowing about it. My signature has always varied some, and from what I heard from Andrew Napalitano the other day, if you were to say be registered with your middle initial, but sign your ballot without it, your ballot can be tossed. I got curious and did some gazoogling, and found that it has only recently been ruled that in CA it is unconstitutional to toss a mail-in ballot based on signature without contacting the voter to verify.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article203746944.html

So while again, I am pro voter ID, it has to be something better than someone who doesn't know me, or who may be a raving lunatic lefty (or righty for a lefty), potentially invalidating my vote because my signature isn't identical. I mean, does anyone write their signature absolutely identically every time?
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

T.O.M.

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2018, 09:30:00 AM »
More from Florida.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/florida-voters-have-until-saturday-to-fix-signature-issue-federal-judge-says

This is kinda a tangent from the elections.

 I have always been a proponent of voter ID, but it has to be done right. This "signature discrepancy" thing actually got me wondering if any of my mail-in ballots have ever been tossed without me knowing about it. My signature has always varied some, and from what I heard from Andrew Napalitano the other day, if you were to say be registered with your middle initial, but sign your ballot without it, your ballot can be tossed. I got curious and did some gazoogling, and found that it has only recently been ruled that in CA it is unconstitutional to toss a mail-in ballot based on signature without contacting the voter to verify.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article203746944.html

So while again, I am pro voter ID, it has to be something better than someone who doesn't know me, or who may be a raving lunatic lefty (or righty for a lefty), potentially invalidating my vote because my signature isn't identical. I mean, does anyone write their signature absolutely identically every time?

I sign my name maybe 50 times a day at work, and while there are minor variances due to pen used, what the surface was, etc., you can tell if it's me.

That said, as I read and here more and more about judges extending voting times, ordering votes to be counted that are deemed questionable, etc., it makes me wonder how long it's going to be before we have something like American Idol style voting...call the 1-800 number to record your votes, identification is irrelevant.  Call as many times as you like ($1 per call fee).
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230RN

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2018, 10:01:20 AM »
Huh.  That middle initial thing is distressing.  Sometimes I use it, sometimes I don't on things, and I use a mail-in ballot.

Worth checking on, but I have enough challenges right now it'll have to wait until next October before I get around to it.

Drat.

Ron

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2018, 10:07:39 AM »
The hordes of media programmed NPC’s will swamp all future elections.

There aren’t enough people on the right to hold the line.

Half the folks on the right are actually leftists who just don’t want to move left so fast.



For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

MillCreek

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2018, 10:17:46 AM »
When I changed the signature on my mail-in ballot from cursive to block printing (I now print my signature), the County Auditor office called to check to make sure it was still me who signed the ballot.  I had to complete and return a new signature card for them.
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JN01

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2018, 05:03:55 PM »
At my local precinct, you have to sign using your finger on one of those electronic pads, which the poll worker compares to your previous signature.  Of course, my e-signature doesn't look anything like it does when signed with a regular writing instrument.

Ben

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2018, 05:31:09 PM »
At my local precinct, you have to sign using your finger on one of those electronic pads, which the poll worker compares to your previous signature.  Of course, my e-signature doesn't look anything like it does when signed with a regular writing instrument.

Yeah, my e-sig looks like it was done by a retarded right-handed monkey writing left-handed.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Hawkmoon

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2018, 05:52:13 PM »
I have always thought that your legal signature had to be "the same" each time. Not that you can absolutely replicate the strokes, but if you habitually use a middle initial, then if you sign without the middle initial it's not your legal signature.

For example, my father's first name was the same as mine, but he didn't have a middle name. I do -- so from an age so young that I can't remember, I have always used the middle initial to distinguish me from my father. By the time he died, it was second nature so I continue to use the middle initial version as my legal name, and my signature. Exceptions are when cashing or depositing checks that don't include the middle initial, or that include the middle name rather than the initial. Checks get endorsed as the payee appears on the face, or the bank teller comes unglued.

On my mother's side, four consecutive generations had the same name, so their signatures included "Sr.", "Jr.", "III", or "IV." My uncle hated the fact that he was "IV," and I noticed that very soon after the death of my grandfather he stopped using the Roman numeral. I have always regarded that as a sign of disrespect.
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MechAg94

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2018, 10:11:32 PM »
Yeah, my e-sig looks like it was done by a retarded right-handed monkey writing left-handed.
Mine would look a little better if they would put a little box around the area where you need to sign so you don't figure out half way through that half your signature didn't get picked up because it wasn't in the hidden box. 
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Scout26

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2018, 10:48:42 PM »
X
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

TommyGunn

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2018, 12:00:50 AM »
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

zxcvbob

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2018, 12:33:54 AM »
On my mother's side, four consecutive generations had the same name, so their signatures included "Sr.", "Jr.", "III", or "IV." My uncle hated the fact that he was "IV," and I noticed that very soon after the death of my grandfather he stopped using the Roman numeral. I have always regarded that as a sign of disrespect.

I believe it's proper to drop the suffix II, III, Jr, etc. (II is not the same as Jr.) when all the ones before you have passed on, but of course it's not mandatory.  I don't think it's disrespectful either way.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2018, 01:07:44 AM »
I believe it's proper to drop the suffix II, III, Jr, etc. (II is not the same as Jr.) when all the ones before you have passed on, but of course it's not mandatory.  I don't think it's disrespectful either way.

My grandfather was very old school. His father (the "Junior"), died in 1948, IIRC. My grandfather continued to use the III after his name until the day he died, in 1972. I know my uncle's reason for dropping the IV, and I definitely consider it a sign of disrespect.
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HeroHog

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2018, 01:17:10 AM »
I'm named after my father, funny thing is, neither of us went by "Alfred." Dad was always "Al" and I have always been "Speedy" since my birth, 9mo and 2 days after my parents were married. No disrespect to my dad, I have just never been known by "Alfred" my entire life!
I might not last very long or be very effective but I'll be a real pain in the ass for a minute!
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Hawkmoon

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2018, 03:12:46 AM »
I'm named after my father, funny thing is, neither of us went by "Alfred." Dad was always "Al" and I have always been "Speedy" since my birth, 9mo and 2 days after my parents were married. No disrespect to my dad, I have just never been known by "Alfred" my entire life!

But what's your legal signature? What name do you sign if you buy a house, car, or motorcycle? What name goes on the title?
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230RN

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2018, 01:23:56 PM »
???
I reckon your legal signature is whatever you acknowledge to be your signature.  Nowadays, I guess that would be in front of a Notary taking the Acknowledgement.  I suppose a witness to it would do, as in "X (John Smith, his mark)."

I figured an attorney would have chimed in on that by now.  Which I ain't.  But a lot of this stuff is related to English Common Law.  Like "Your name is whatever you hold yourself out to be.  A court order only compels others to recognize it."

???

Terry

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2018, 01:27:30 PM »
LEGAL is "Alfred" I get checks to "Speedy" and my bank is fine with that and I do NOT answer to "Alfred," NEVER have, not in school, not in the military. I answer to "Speedy", "Mercer", "Dr Speed", or "Hey, ahole" (or such).
I might not last very long or be very effective but I'll be a real pain in the ass for a minute!
MOLON LABE!

230RN

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2018, 01:35:53 PM »
Yeah the only time I ever heard "Terrance," it was from my mother.

Terry
« Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 01:21:46 AM by 230RN »

Hawkmoon

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2018, 07:07:27 PM »
Back to the topic. (Is that allowed?)

Broward and Palm Beach counties in Florida missed the deadlines for submitting the recounts, so the state rejected the recounts and let the original counts stand.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-county-submits-recount-2-165424808.html

It's interesting to note (for those kvetching about "Let every vote count) that, if the recounts had been validated, BOTH candidates in each race would actually have lost votes, but the outcome would not have changed.
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Scout26

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2018, 10:27:40 PM »
LEGAL is "Alfred" I get checks to "Speedy" and my bank is fine with that and I do NOT answer to "Alfred," NEVER have, not in school, not in the military. I answer to "Speedy", "Mercer", "Dr Speed", or "Hey, *expletive deleted*hole" (or such).

Yes, but what do you sign when you get a loan, rent an apartment, or sign something that needs notarized ??  That is your legal signature. (and from working with a Notary Public here in the tax office, It better be the name on your Driver's License and your signature better be pretty damn close to what's on your license.

Yes, your bank may not care who the checks you deposit are made out to, but if you want to borrow money from them, I can pretty much bet that "Speedy" won't fly.

When I work elections, we tell people to sign with their "I'm signing a government document." signature.  Not the one they use to sign the "Please excuse junior form school yesterday", or the I'm signing 50 documents at work signature.  I seriously sign with an "X" at work on the electronic capture pad.  No one else does, so if there's ever any question, everyone knows it was me.  (All the stuff signed on the pad stays with us.  It never goes to the IRS.  Those forms are for J-H use only.) 
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

HeroHog

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2018, 12:34:48 AM »
As I noted, my LEGAL name is "Alfred" and HAS to be used on legal documents. That doesn't mean I have to use it for anything else. In fact, the name on my Social Security Card from the very early 60's is signed "Speedy" and I still have and use that original card and have never replaced it.
I might not last very long or be very effective but I'll be a real pain in the ass for a minute!
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Hawkmoon

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2018, 11:45:16 AM »
Yet more from Florida: https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Absent-Ballots-Broward-County-Misplaced-Over-2000-Votes-500756262.html

Broward County has "misplaced" 2,000+ votes. How convenient!

Why does this Snipes person still have a job?
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freakazoid

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2018, 08:54:28 PM »
I thought signatures can be anything you decide to put down. Don't see how they can get by with saying that it "doesn't match" or that you didn't use your middle initial or whatever.
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

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Scout26

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2018, 09:46:33 PM »
I thought signatures can be anything you decide to put down. Don't see how they can get by with saying that it "doesn't match" or that you didn't use your middle initial or whatever.

Yes, your signature can be anything you wish.  However, when you register to vote (at least in Illinois), your signature is scanned into the voter database.  Then you come in to vote, you have to sign the "Application to Vote" and we compare that to what you had signed previously when you had registered.   Now, signatures change somewhat over time, so we look to make sure it kinda, sorta, if you look at it from that angle, appears close to what you signed all those years ago.  (And a Democrat and Republican election judge have to agree, if one doesn't then we have the old Challenge to Vote and all the FUN that entails) It would be sooooooo much simpler, if we had Voter ID.  But that would eliminate the Margin of Fraud for the Democrats here in Illinois.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Brad Johnson

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Re: On Validating Ballots
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2018, 09:58:24 PM »
Brenda Snipes resigning.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-brenda-snipes-resigns-20181118-story,amp.html

I figured she would come out swinging with every lib lawyer and race-baiting tactic she (or her Dem supporters) could afford. A simple resignation? I am genuinely gobsmacked.

Brad
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