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Author Topic: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.  (Read 1786 times)
Hawkmoon
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« Reply #75 on: October 14, 2020, 06:04:18 AM »

Did someone say the victim was a legit patched 1%'r?

Antifa/BLM couldn't have chosen to piss off a better group IMHO.

 Popcorn

Viking said that, but he had the wrong name.

The victim was a biker -- his shirt said "Biker Lives Matter" -- but he wasn't the person Viking identified as a 1% biker gang member. It's possible that he was, but I don't think we know that.
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #76 on: October 14, 2020, 06:10:00 AM »

https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/unlicensed-security-guard-matthew-dolloff-shooting-probable-cause-statement-video/73-a5a0a0e9-11b1-4d7d-972d-7b2a25fd1173
This video shows a little more of the confrontation from the point of view right beside the shooter.

The deceased saw that there were people taking pictures, aggressively approached the photographer saying: "This is not the place for a camera.  Get the cameras out of here or I'm going to f*** you up."  The shooter stepped in to stop him and that takes it up to the point of the slap.

Not saying the dead guy deserved to be shot, but it does appear he was attempting to intimidate the journalists that the shooter was protecting.

I just watched that video three times, and I don't think it shows any more than we already knew.
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #77 on: October 14, 2020, 06:12:21 AM »

This one is different and worth watching just to get data from all sides. I can't be sure, but it appears the slide on the pistol is on its way back in that still image, which would indicate the pepper spray and shot went off at roughly the same time.

I agree. The narrative is that Keltner "maced" the security guy, so the security guy shot him in self defense. I don't see it that way. It looks to me like Keltner deployed the pepper spray when he saw the security guy pulling a gun.
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cordex
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« Reply #78 on: October 14, 2020, 06:15:10 AM »

I just watched that video three times, and I don't think it shows any more than we already knew.
You knew that the deceased was intimidating journalists?  I must have missed that reference previously.
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Ben
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« Reply #79 on: October 14, 2020, 07:00:54 AM »

You knew that the deceased was intimidating journalists?  I must have missed that reference previously.

Yeah, that could be somewhat damning to the victim without necessarily taking the security guard off the hook. If the victim was intimidating the news person, which this video seems to indicate, then interceding would be exactly what a security guard would have been hired to do. It will come down to level of force used to intercede.
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cordex
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« Reply #80 on: October 14, 2020, 07:08:23 AM »

Yeah, that could be somewhat damning to the victim without necessarily taking the security guard off the hook. If the victim was intimidating the news person, which this video seems to indicate, then interceding would be exactly what a security guard would have been hired to do. It will come down to level of force used to intercede.
I don't disagree at all.
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makattak
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« Reply #81 on: October 14, 2020, 07:09:15 AM »

It seems to me the antifa-provided "security" was actually intervening to protect his charge.

It then seems to me that he fired REALLY QUICKLY afterward, in the absence of any lethal threat.

That's murder. Not murder 1, but murder. Also indicative of a lack of security training, but clearly had firearms training and was eager and happy to use that.
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MechAg94
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« Reply #82 on: October 14, 2020, 08:28:31 AM »

It seems to me the antifa-provided "security" was actually intervening to protect his charge.

It then seems to me that he fired REALLY QUICKLY afterward, in the absence of any lethal threat.

That's murder. Not murder 1, but murder. Also indicative of a lack of security training, but clearly had firearms training and was eager and happy to use that.
That is my thought.  Just because the guy was "intimidating" a journalist doesn't mean he can shoot him. 

Look at the other side of that.  There are numerous incidents of antifa and BLM activists physically attacking people and making very serious threats yet no one has suggested gunning them all down to be a good response. 
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makattak
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« Reply #83 on: October 14, 2020, 08:43:54 AM »

That is my thought.  Just because the guy was "intimidating" a journalist doesn't mean he can shoot him.  

Look at the other side of that.  There are numerous incidents of antifa and BLM activists physically attacking people and making very serious threats yet no one has suggested gunning them all down to be a good response.  

I will say that the antifa-gaurd may have been justified if he was facing an angry mob and getting threatened with pepper-spray.

That would be a disabling attack in the face of overwhelming disparity of force. A random citizen getting pepper-sprayed by a violent mob would likely have a valid self-defense claim. Even just assaulted by an angry mob could provide a valid fear for your life.

Getting pepper sprayed by a guy who slapped you with an open hand is not a valid self-defense situation.  
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cordex
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« Reply #84 on: October 14, 2020, 09:14:18 AM »

Look at the other side of that.  There are numerous incidents of antifa and BLM activists physically attacking people and making very serious threats yet no one has suggested gunning them all down to be a good response. 
You know, I bet it wouldn't be too hard to find posts on APS suggesting just that.  It's easy to get defensive about the death of someone ostensibly on "our team" when they are killed by "one of them", and be a little more understanding when it is someone on "our team" who pulls the trigger.
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makattak
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« Reply #85 on: October 14, 2020, 09:20:55 AM »

You know, I bet it wouldn't be too hard to find posts on APS suggesting just that.  It's easy to get defensive about the death of someone ostensibly on "our team" when they are killed by "one of them", and be a little more understanding when it is someone on "our team" who pulls the trigger.

While I would likely feel some antifa-punk deserved it, the same circumstances would have had me reluctantly stating this looks like a bad shoot.

The outcome would be the same, just how easy it is to admit it would have changed.
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ôWisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.ö
Hawkmoon
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« Reply #86 on: October 14, 2020, 10:28:28 AM »

You knew that the deceased was intimidating journalists?  I must have missed that reference previously.

No, I didn't know that. And I didn't see that in the new video, so I still don't know it. I saw some subtitles, but I didn't hear the words spoken in the soundtrack.
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Ben
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« Reply #87 on: October 15, 2020, 05:56:38 AM »

Looks like the news station is throwing their guy under the bus. They are saying they specifically requested an unarmed guard.

Quote
In another development, 9News said it requested an unarmed security guard for the rally.

ô9News contracted with Pinkerton and had directed that security guards accompanying our personnel not be armed,ö the station said in a statement. ôNone of 9Newsĺ crew accompanied by Mr. Dolloff on Saturday were aware that he was armed.ö

https://www.theepochtimes.com/denver-rally-shooter-fired-as-victim-sprayed-mace-affidavit_3540244.html
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Brad Johnson
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« Reply #88 on: October 15, 2020, 07:07:32 AM »

Looks like the news station is throwing their guy under the bus. They are saying they specifically requested an unarmed guard.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/denver-rally-shooter-fired-as-victim-sprayed-mace-affidavit_3540244.html

Reading the story requires entering an email address. Nope.

Attorneys, both the station's and the station's liability insurance company's, are probably sweating bullets and this is the only thing they can legitimately do in terms of distancing. It's been established the guy was in their employ (as a third-party subcontractor, but still...) so they can't spin it there. About the only thing left is to find something, anything, that will shift some part of the blame to the primary contractor for not meeting requested specs. The TV station is likely part of a much larger nationwide conglomerate and Pinkerton is an international presence. Both have deep pockets and probably aren't liking the laser-intensity spotlight on them right now. They're probably talking some serious settlement numbers to keep it out of court.

The third-party security firm Pinkerton contracted to supply the guy? Unknown. I'm guessing some local one- or two-horse operation that essentially hired anyone who could fog a mirror. They've probably already evaporated. At the very least they've probably faded into something that exists only on paper. Heck, they may have been that way from the start. They might get the principal on something procedural like background checks or failure to validate/certify training and licensing requirements. At best they might find something criminally negligent like forging paperwork, but even that will probably end up being plead to nothing more egregious than a fine and loss of security license.

Brad
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"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK?Huh? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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RocketMan
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« Reply #89 on: October 15, 2020, 08:15:37 AM »

To your point Brad, the third party security contractor may have just been the shooter.
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« Reply #90 on: October 15, 2020, 03:40:55 PM »

Charged with 2nd degree murder

 Unlicensed security guard Matthew Dolloff will be charged with murder in the 2nd degree
https://kdvr.com/news/local/unlicensed-security-guard-matthew-dolloff-charged-with-murder-in-the-2nd-degree/
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RocketMan
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« Reply #91 on: October 15, 2020, 04:18:42 PM »

Charged with 2nd degree murder

 Unlicensed security guard Matthew Dolloff will be charged with murder in the 2nd degree
https://kdvr.com/news/local/unlicensed-security-guard-matthew-dolloff-charged-with-murder-in-the-2nd-degree/

That's good news.  I'm glad that my speculation about him getting a pass from the DA was wrong.
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Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

How many Democrats does it take to fix a problem?  No one knows because it's never happened.
Brad Johnson
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« Reply #92 on: October 15, 2020, 05:10:34 PM »

That's good news.  I'm glad that my speculation about him getting a pass from the DA was wrong.

Second that.

Brad
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It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK?Huh? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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sumpnz
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« Reply #93 on: October 15, 2020, 08:26:10 PM »

Charged with 2nd degree murder

 Unlicensed security guard Matthew Dolloff will be charged with murder in the 2nd degree
https://kdvr.com/news/local/unlicensed-security-guard-matthew-dolloff-charged-with-murder-in-the-2nd-degree/

Good.

2nd degree is probably appropriate.  Unless they find evidence the guy took the job specifically hoping to kill a Trump supporter. 
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