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Author Topic: Pulling out of Syria  (Read 799 times)
Amy Schumer
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« on: December 20, 2018, 09:20:15 AM »

I'm ok with this, actually.  He didn't say we are pulling out of Iraq, so we can still help defend the Kurds there.  The ones in Syria, not so much.   

Anyway, I thought the timing of Trump's announcement was interesting considering this.:

https://www.rt.com/news/446823-syria-constitutional-commitee-launch/


And I do think that if the democrats hadn't gone all "russia, Russia, RUSSIA" after the 2016 election, Trump was going to try to work with Putin/Russia on coming up with a solution for Syria.  Yes, Assad would still be there.  But as I have pointed out, Assad's regime allows the free exercise of any and all religions, and was a multi-ethnic country.  Yes, he was a full on dictator, but it would appear he only put his thumb down on those radical Islamic f*expletive deleted*tards that needed to be put down.  Druze, Yadhzis, Shia, Sunni and others were pretty much left alone.   Yeah, the Hezbollah thing in Lebanon is problematic, but probably could have been something to ask him to stop funding in exchange for our working with him to put down ISIS.

Missed opportunities all because of the *expletive deleted*ing resistance.
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Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.
Amy Schumer
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« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2018, 09:28:11 AM »

And pull out of A-stan.  Then issue the Trump Doctrine.  If you allowed terrorist f*expletive deleted*tards to attack the US.  We'll launch nukes, *expletive deleted*ck you.  Ask Japan about what happens when you start sh!t with us.

Cut all Foreign Aid, and leave the UN.  *expletive deleted*ck 'em.


And yes, I'm in sh!tty mood today, why do you ask ??
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Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.
DittoHead
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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2018, 10:29:25 AM »

I could probably be convinced that there is worthwhile work for us to do in Syria. However without some realistic defined goals or at the very least a valid congressional authorization, we shouldn't be mucking around there.
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Parker Dean
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« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2018, 11:06:56 AM »

I'm ok with this, actually.  He didn't say we are pulling out of Iraq, so we can still help defend the Kurds there.  The ones in Syria, not so much.   

Anyway, I thought the timing of Trump's announcement was interesting considering this.:

https://www.rt.com/news/446823-syria-constitutional-commitee-launch/


And I do think that if the democrats hadn't gone all "russia, Russia, RUSSIA" after the 2016 election, Trump was going to try to work with Putin/Russia on coming up with a solution for Syria.  Yes, Assad would still be there.  But as I have pointed out, Assad's regime allows the free exercise of any and all religions, and was a multi-ethnic country.  Yes, he was a full on dictator, but it would appear he only put his thumb down on those radical Islamic f*expletive deleted*tards that needed to be put down.  Druze, Yadhzis, Shia, Sunni and others were pretty much left alone.   Yeah, the Hezbollah thing in Lebanon is problematic, but probably could have been something to ask him to stop funding in exchange for our working with him to put down ISIS.

Missed opportunities all because of the *expletive deleted*ing resistance.

We weren't interested in knocking Assad over because he was a dictator or anything remotely humanitarian. No, he put a target on his back when he granted the Russians a naval base from which they can threaten European energy supplies from the Middle East. That right there meant he had to go so a regime could be installed that would tell the Russians to get lost. We half-assed it and failed this time. It's still necessary to get the Russians out of there so we'll just be going about it another way.
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Angel Eyes
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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2018, 11:21:16 AM »

Because I'm in a Babylon Bee sort of mood today:

https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-criticized-for-breaking-longstanding-american-tradition-of-remaining-in-middle-eastern-countries-indefinitely

(Yeah, how dare he try to pull us out of a quagmire!)
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TommyGunn
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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2018, 11:35:34 AM »

I'm divided on this.   Possibly ISIS  will reconstitute;  they lost the caliphate but there's still 20,000 of them in the woodwork ready to scurry out like cockroaches.

In any case, Trump affected this in an awfully ham handed manner.  Face Palm!
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2018, 06:45:25 PM »

I'm divided on this.   Possibly ISIS  will reconstitute;  they lost the caliphate but there's still 20,000 of them in the woodwork ready to scurry out like cockroaches.

In any case, Trump affected this in an awfully ham handed manner.  Face Palm!

We just have to hope that the reconstituted ISIS will expend most of its energy fighting the reconstituted Taliban.

Is Al-Queda still a thing?
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Ron
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« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2018, 06:51:30 PM »

Weĺve been electing presidents for two decades who were against nation building or for pulling out of the Middle East.

Ĺbout time one of them actually started disengaging.

Iĺm all for getting out of Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Time to wind down the Empire.

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« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2018, 08:42:32 PM »

We just have to hope that the reconstituted ISIS will expend most of its energy fighting the reconstituted Taliban.

Is Al-Queda still a thing?

Hope isn't a particularly good strategy in my book.

OTOH  what we've been doing the passed 17 years haven't really worked so well either ......
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« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2018, 08:55:58 PM »

OTOH  what we've been doing the passed 17 years haven't really worked so well either ......

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" doesn't seem to be accomplishing much, either ...
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DittoHead
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« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2018, 05:03:04 AM »

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" doesn't seem to be accomplishing much, either ...

To be fair, it's not that simple.
More like "The friend of my enemies' friends former enemies allies are not my friends and used to be my enemy but we get along OK sometimes" police
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Amy Schumer
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« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2018, 05:17:58 AM »

We weren't interested in knocking Assad over because he was a dictator or anything remotely humanitarian. No, he put a target on his back when he granted the Russians a naval base from which they can threaten European energy supplies from the Middle East. That right there meant he had to go so a regime could be installed that would tell the Russians to get lost. We half-assed it and failed this time. It's still necessary to get the Russians out of there so we'll just be going about it another way.
k

We didn't half0ass it.  We full-assed it.  Obama and Hillary thought they could remake the Mid-east in their world view.  The only thing we did was make Syria worse then Libya.  That's quite the accomplishment.  

And who cares if Russia gained a seaport in Med.  The really don't have the naval forces to project power in what is a NATO lake.   We probably could and should have worked closer with Assad.  Yes, he's not the the shining pillar of democracy and decency in the world, but the Mid-east is a shithole.  He did a good job of keeping the lid (for the most part) on the Islamist f*expletive deleted*tards, without going full on slaughter of the masses.

We could have used our influence to get him to cut ties with Hezbollah, in return for not wrecking his country ala Libya...

Trump should have taken the advice given to Kennedy and Johnson during the Congo Crisis back in the 1960's:  "Change Sides."
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 09:50:07 PM by Amy Schumer » Report to moderator   Logged

Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.
BTR
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« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2018, 07:52:19 AM »

It seems that almost everything we have done in the Middle East has been a horrific failure.  Seems like a good call.
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Ben
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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2018, 09:27:50 AM »

Of course "president" Hillary Clinton has to comment.

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2018/12/21/double-thud-hillary-clinton-trips-all-over-herself-and-obama-in-rush-to-slam-trump-on-russia-iran-syria/

Go back top taking walks in the park. Most of this is your fault, you hippie.
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brimic
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« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2018, 12:51:26 PM »

To be fair, it's not that simple.
More like "The friend of my enemies' friends former enemies allies are not my friends and used to be my enemy but we get along OK sometimes" police

Just need to work the word 'ex-wife' somewhere into that statement to make it perfect.
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MechAg94
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« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2018, 05:10:33 PM »

k

We didn't half0ass it.  We full-assed it.  Obama and Hillary thought they could remake the Mid-east in their world view.  The only thing we did was make Syria worse then Libya.  That quite the accomplishment.  

And who cares if Russia gained a seaport in Med.  The really don't have the naval forces to project power in what is a NATO lake.   We probably could and should have worked closer with Assad.  Yes, he's not the the shining pillar of democracy and decency in the world, but the Mid-east is a shithole.  He did a good job of keeping the lid (for the most part) on the Islamist f*expletive deleted*tards, without going full on slaughter of the masses.

We could have used our influence to get him to cut ties with Hezbollah, in return for not wrecking his country ala Libya...

Trump should have taken the advice given to Kennedy and Johnson during the Congo Crisis back in the 1960's:  "Change Sides."
Agreed.  Regime change in Iraq and Afghanistan hasn't worked out so well either.  We are still in Afghanistan supporting a govt that can't yet stand on its own and we had to go back to Iraq to help defend them from ISIS.  I am glad we haven't had to send troops into Libya and Egypt after the chaos Obama and Co created there.  IMO, a lot of the current issues in the Middle East are the result of our constant intervention in one way or another.  IMO, even the Palestinian problems are due in part because every single President in my lifetime has made "Peace in the Middle East" a foreign policy goal and ended up coddling the Palestinians.  I think we would be better off if we pulled out and backed off for a while.  We will still have issues with countries like Iran, but focusing on them might be a welcome change.
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« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2018, 05:14:29 PM »

I'm not sure if this is a, "Good we're getting out" or, "We still have a job to finish" story, but the two hikers killed in Morocco were beheaded as revenge for a recent US victory over ISIS in Hajin:

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/12/21/report-scandinavian-hikers-murdered-in-retaliation-for-u-s-kurdish-victory-over-isis-in-hajin-syria-13-now-under-arrest/
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Chester32141
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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2018, 05:43:11 PM »

Quote
Saudi Crown Prince MbS Sends Replacement Troops To Defend Kurds in Syriaů

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/12/21/checkmate-saudi-crown-prince-mbs-sends-replacement-troops-to-defend-kurds-in-syria/#more-158042

 Popcorn
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 06:19:42 PM by Chester32141 » Report to moderator   Logged

Amy Schumer
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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2018, 10:09:11 PM »

If that's true, then the Sadui's and UAE are sending troops that have some very recent combat experience in Yemen more then likely, so these are not your typical "Arab Army" troops, but ones that have been blooded in some pretty brutal fighting.

And I get it that the whole Khasoggai thing is merely something else to hammer Trump with.  I'm sorry, but yes he was a "columnist" for the WaPo, but he was still a Saudi citizen.  He went to the embassy of his own free-will.  Therefore he was on Saudi territory.  And yes, they behead people in their own country.  Did MbS order his execution, I don't know and even if so, again.  He's a Saudi citizen on Saudi territory.  Yes, we should send a strongly worded letter, but beyond that...eh.  The MSM on the other hand want us to break all ties and invade.  From what I understand Khasoggai may have been a Muslim Brotherhood member, in which case I say good riddance to bad trash.   But my overall attitude is "Not our problem."  Not everybody who is in power in various countries is all sweetness and light.  We have to deal with some not so nice people, especially in the ME, which seems to contain a greater percentage of f*expletive deleted*tards then the rest of the world.

Point two.  Syria and Assad were always somewhat friendly with the USSR/Russia.  But only when we started funding and supplying arms to the Anti-Assad forces (by shipping Libyian weapons from Benghazi, via the CIA), did he fully embrace their support.  "I give you warm water port for metric buttload of whatever leftover cold war stockpiles of guns and tanks and bullets you still have in warehouses."

And who did that again ??

Yes, what Hillary and Obama did borders on Treason.  Everything they touched turned to shi!t and only made things worse.  

« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 09:31:39 AM by Amy Schumer » Report to moderator   Logged

Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.
Chester32141
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« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2018, 04:47:05 AM »

Quote
But the real issue is this: it is foolish in the extreme, and ultimately self-defeating, to keep troops anywhere indefinitely, with no end point, no plan for victory, no clear goal Ś that just saps the nationĺs resources and produces no good result. Anytime we leave Syria or anywhere else, anti-American elements will do their best to capitalize on our absence. But if the answer to this is to keep troops everywhere, then they will never come home, and we will need to send them into many more countries than those theyĺre currently in.
Popcorn
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/272315/trump-right-withdraw-syria-robert-spencer


eta. ů https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/12/farewell_to_syria.html
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 05:04:33 AM by Chester32141 » Report to moderator   Logged

MechAg94
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« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2018, 07:35:16 AM »

Yes, what Hillary and Obama did borders on Treason.  Everything they touched turned to shi!t and only made things worse. 


QFT
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Ron
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« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2018, 02:43:40 PM »

Good read on Syria

http://www.unz.com/pcockburn/trumps-syria-withdrawal-is-a-simple-case-of-foreign-policy-realism/

Isis most likely isnĺt going to have a resurgence.

ôIsis made too many enemies because of its indiscriminate violence when it was at the peak of its power. Trump is right to assume in a tweet that ôRussia, Iran, Syria & many othersůwill have to fight ISIS and others, who they hate, without usö. Isis may seek to take advantage of chaos in eastern Syria in the coming months, but there will be no power vacuum for them to exploit. The vacuum will be filled by Turkey or Syria or a combination of the two.ö
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Ron
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« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2019, 10:28:00 AM »

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/01/04/the-blob-is-lying-about-trumps-sudden-syria-withdrawal/

Good read about the decision timeline of getting out of Syria.
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Amy Schumer
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« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2019, 11:40:43 AM »

As I said at the beginning of this thread:

Quote
I'm ok with this, actually.  He didn't say we are pulling out of Iraq, so we can still help defend the Kurds there.  The ones in Syria, not so much.

Sounds like the Kurds will have to "work with" Assad.  And as I've pointed out elsewhere on APS.  Prior to Obama and Hillary deciding that Assad needed to go, Syria was a pluralistic and religiously tolerant country.  Sunni, *expletive deleted*it, Druze, Christians, Kurds, Zoroastrians and others were all able to worship freely in Syria.

Basically, Obama and Hillary pushed Assad into the arms (pun intended) of Putin and the Russians.  Trump knew that before he got elected and was working toward "changing sides" and working with Assad, Putin and the Russians to end the war.   But because of the whole "russia, Russia, RUSSIA" horsehockey, Trump was handcuffed into a failing policy.

Most people just don't get/see how truly evil those two were...
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Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.
BTR
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« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2019, 06:54:29 AM »

Ron, Assad did send aid to terrorists attacking American soldiers in Iraq.

Still, I worry that what might replace him would be worse.
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