Holy Hell! Mattis is Out

[MillCreek]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/trump-mattis-out-as-of-jan-1-deputy-to-be-acting-chief

The President is unhappy and now General Mattis will be leaving the office on 1 January.

[dogmush]

People shouldn't be making promises they have no power to keep.  Presidents should not change their foreign policy just because someone down the chain made a promise. 

If we don't want the US to be the World Police then they shouldn't be.  We should not abandon that idea just because bad things might happen somewhere.  There will always be temptations to get involved and political factions who push for it. 

And if we are responsible for some of the instability in the Middle East, the answer to that is not a permanent mission there. 

I don't completely disagree, but it should be noted that if our promises to our allies are proven to only be one President long too many times, we'll find it pretty hard to have allies.  Allies have actually proven to be pretty handy to have.

As I said I have no desire for a permanent mission in the Mid East.  There is probably something between permanent mission and "good luck with the genocide, we'll be at home".  This country, (and Trump) are fast friends of Israel, and as such we're kidding ourselves if we think we suddenly won't have interests on that peninsula.  We just made it harder to get help with those interests.

[Ron]

We’ve been doubling down in places like Afghanistan and Iraq due to our commitments.

Unfortunately the folks we made the commitments to never really hold up their end or get their *expletive deleted*it together.

Bring the troops home, build the wall, American interests come first from now on.

[dogmush]

The folks we just bailed on have been pretty good about holding up their end.

[Ben]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/trump-mattis-out-as-of-jan-1-deputy-to-be-acting-chief

The President is unhappy and now General Mattis will be leaving the office on 1 January.

Yikes. That makes him look kinda petulant.

I'd be more open to accepting Trump's decision if I knew how it came about and just who advised him. I can't think of anyone at a high enough level with the relevant expertise. So far all we have is that there was a phone call with the nutjob in Turkey, and next thing you know, we're out of Syria with apparently no transition plan other than, "here today, gone tomorrow".

[grampster]

"However, I go and point back to what I said on the afternoon of 9/11/2001.   "The last time we went up against an enemy that was willing to commit suicide to kill Americans, we had to drop two nukes to get them to stop."

To the above, I'd bring back another quote..."...the lesson of Vietnam."  War should always be the last resort, especially when we are attacked and further promised that we are total enemies and we are to either submit or be killed.   Then it should be fought in the ways of the Old Testament.  Kill them all...their relatives, women, children, animals everything and then cover the earth with salt.

[Hawkmoon]

To the above, I'd bring back another quote..."...the lesson of Vietnam."  War should always be the last resort, especially when we are attacked and further promised that we are total enemies and we are to either submit or be killed.   Then it should be fought in the ways of the Old Testament.  Kill them all...their relatives, women, children, animals everything and then cover the earth with salt.

I am confused. Why should we waste salt if the entire area has been nuked to glass?

[Ron]

Mattis knew Trump was elected to get us out of these ME wars and that both the people and Trump were serious.

What the hell has he been doing all this time? He should have had plans in place.

Maybe he is gone because he refused to do his job.

[Scout26]

And maybe Mattis thinks the job isn't quite done yet in Syria ??

[Andiron]

And maybe Mattis thinks the job isn't quite done yet in Syria ??

Mattis probably thinks a repeat of the Obama administration's creation of Isis wouldn't be a good idea

[Scout26]

And that.  However, I think that Islam extremism is here to stay.  We'll smash one group and another will rise up in it's place.

[Ben]

And that.  However, I think that Islam extremism is here to stay.  We'll smash one group and another will rise up in it's place.

Heard a really good synopsis from a former SF Officer on that the other day. The problem is that it's a game of whack-a-mole with no real geography to draw a line around. There's no real geography to go all von Clausewitz on, unless we wanna nuke half the world. It's almost like gun control for mass shootings - going after the guns doesn't help if you can't stop whatever the systemic problem is that drives the shooters.

So on the one hand, I see Mattis' point because he's kinda like the guy charging into the mass shooting scene and he wants to make sure all the bad guys there are neutralized before he clears the scene. On the other hand, there's gonna be more deranged shooters popping up elsewhere, and probably back in Syria again too in five years or whatever.

I'd just prefer to see a better planned pullout that doesn't leave our allies there hanging out to dry, or to be burned alive in cages on the youtubez.

[cordex]

Whatever my thoughts on ending the interminable and unproductive interventions in the Middle East, when it comes to military strategy, geopolitics, and just about any other subject, I trust Mattis' analysis over Trump's.

I was impressed when Trump brought Mattis on board and I'm disappointed he pushed him out.

[Ron]

I’m hoping Mattis had withdrawal plans ready to go and that Trump just bumped up the timeline.

More and more I’m realizing that we, the hoi polloi, not only are kept in the dark about most things we are purposefully fed disinformation and lies.

As it stands, Mattis could be working with Trump with his actions and everything we’re reading being disinformation. He’s a white hat MAGA man.

Mattis could be as the media is presenting it, wanting to wind down our forever wars over an unspecified length of time. He’s a neocon who wants to make the world safe for democracy.

Mattis could be a globalist who is an American agent of the western worlds imperialist cabal that the US deep state runs. Gaining control of ME countries governments and resources being their goal. He’s a globalist black hat in league with those who hate Trump.

Who really knows?

[Scout26]

 He’s a neocon who wants to make the world safe for democracy.

Mattis could be a globalist who is an American agent of the western worlds imperialist cabal that the US deep state runs. Gaining control of ME countries governments and resources being their goal. He’s a globalist black hat in league with those who hate Trump.

Who really knows?

If you've even listened to him you would know that he's not a neo-con.  I don't know why you keep trying to push that narrative when it's not even remotely close to true. 

[Hawkmoon]

The Hill has an interesting take on it:
https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/422696-The-education-of-James-Mattis

Surveying Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, Trump no doubt feels his executives in charge of the defense, diplomacy, and reconstruction subsidiaries have failed to deliver after two decades and unlimited funding. They’re not ready to go to market, so it’s time to liquidate some assets.

Thus, Mattis was faced with a boss who thinks in terms of schedules and deliverables, and return on investment (ROI), with an added obligation to keep his promises to the voters. Mattis’s instincts should have been at their most acute, but he failed to understand that Trump really was getting the U.S. out of Syria, because as he said of the “moderate” Syrian fighters “we have no idea who these people are.”

...

Mattis spent much of his time telling whoever would listen that he was at the Pentagon to protect it from the Commander-in-Chief, which is pedestrian Washington, D.C. image management, at odds with the selfless, soldier-scholar image he cultivated. Mattis the man is not the Mattis of myth.

[Ron]

If you've even listened to him you would know that he's not a neo-con.  I don't know why you keep trying to push that narrative when it's not even remotely close to true. 

I realize he is just following orders, but our whole Middle East military adventurism is a neo-con enterprise and he has played a big part in that enterprise.

If he did more than talk about getting out and was more in line with the President I’d be less skeptical.

Trump has shown how there is tawk and there is action.

Mattis wants to continue the neocon strategy of military engagement in all these Middle East *expletive deleted*it holes. That is the neo-con policy regarding the Middle East.

[Ben]

Looks like Trump is now up for slowing things down on the Syria pullout. Hopefully for a more strategically sound pullout. Wish he would have taken that deep breath before Mattis dropped off the resignation papers.

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/12/30/what-sen-lindsey-graham-says-trump-in-a-pause-situation-on-troop-withdrawal-from-syria/

[Andiron]

Looks like Trump is now up for slowing things down on the Syria pullout. Hopefully for a more strategically sound pullout. Wish he would have taken that deep breath before Mattis dropped off the resignation papers.

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/12/30/what-sen-lindsey-graham-says-trump-in-a-pause-situation-on-troop-withdrawal-from-syria/

So what you're saying is  there's still a chance for Mad Dog 2020...

[Jamisjockey]

Looks like Trump is now up for slowing things down on the Syria pullout. Hopefully for a more strategically sound pullout. Wish he would have taken that deep breath before Mattis dropped off the resignation papers.

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/12/30/what-sen-lindsey-graham-says-trump-in-a-pause-situation-on-troop-withdrawal-from-syria/

I fully believe we only see the tip of the iceberg.  Everything under the surface is probably 100x the shitshow we see on the outside.
That whitehouse has to be an insane madhouse.  
I have to believe that the Mad Dog took Trump at his word when he made the decision to pull out, and that was that.  Mad Dog is a man of integrity, and probably didn't expect Trump to waffle.

[Ron]

I fully believe we only see the tip of the iceberg.  Everything under the surface is probably 100x the shitshow we see on the outside.
That whitehouse has to be an insane madhouse.  
I have to believe that the Mad Dog took Trump at his word when he made the decision to pull out, and that was that.  Mad Dog is a man of integrity, and probably didn't expect Trump to waffle.

Everything is on the table as a bargaining chip with Trump.

Everything Trumps says is suspect as disinformation.

Creating chaos, disruption of the status quo is a Trump tactic.

He has been better than I expected but in an unorthodox manner.

Accomplishment wise he has been an above average Republican so far. Nothing really that outside the box.

Regarding what it is safe to talk about in public, he has really moved the Overton window, he’s a master of anchoring the starting points of negotiations far to the right!

Mad Dog from what I’ve read is also a proponent of the chaos tactic. Trump just turns it up to 11.

[Jamisjockey]

Everything is on the table as a bargaining chip with Trump.

Everything Trumps says is suspect as disinformation.

Creating chaos, disruption of the status quo is a Trump tactic.

He has been better than I expected but in an unorthodox manner.

Accomplishment wise he has been an above average Republican so far. Nothing really that outside the box.

Regarding what it is safe to talk about in public, he has really moved the Overton window, he’s a master of anchoring the starting points of negotiations far to the right!

Mad Dog from what I’ve read is also a proponent of the chaos tactic. Trump just turns it up to 11.

 

Running a chaotic organization is not efficient.  What that man is doing inside the Whitehouse is not some master tactic. He's not some master tactician. He's a bad boss, a bully and a moron and it's clear why so many businesses he ran declared bankruptcy.
Mattis is all for creating chaos for the enemy.  Not within an organization.

[Ron]

... leftist talking points removed ...
Mattis is all for creating chaos for the enemy.  Not within an organization.

I guess it depends on who is considered the enemy.

[Ben]

Aw geez, here we go with the "I'd make a good General" stuff. Plus, "Hey, me and Obama both fired him!"

http://insider.foxnews.com/2019/01/02/president-trump-former-defense-secretary-james-mattis-didnt-do-good-afghanistan

[Hawkmoon]

One thing I absolutely don't like about Trump is his propensity to heap abuse on former officials after they depart his administration. That's just childish. I'm perfectly happy when he trolls the Democrats, or Rocketman, but dissing the people he appointed to high positions is crude, rude, and socially unacceptable. It also raises the question: If these people were so terrible -- why did you appoint them?