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Author Topic: Partial Gov Shut Down in Effect  (Read 1948 times)
Amy Schumer
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« Reply #75 on: January 11, 2019, 08:54:43 AM »

He went from $25billion to $5.7.  Chuck and Nancy went from $1.6 to zero.
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Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
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Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on for the motherland.
DittoHead
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« Reply #76 on: January 11, 2019, 09:12:22 AM »

He went from $25billion to $5.7.  Chuck and Nancy went from $1.6 to zero.
That's not correct.

The presidentĺs February budget request for fiscal 2019 asked Congress for $1.6 billion for construction of 65 miles of ônew border wall system in southern Texas.ö Subsequently, Homeland Security officials indicated the White House was looking for $2.2 billion in a hearing on Capitol Hill, which House GOP lawmakers included in a larger immigration and border security package that was defeated in that chamber.

Then, Trump floated the higher $5 billion figure in a meeting with congressional Republicans in June, which became what passes for a formal request. But it was never accompanied by a ôbudget amendmentö submitted to Congress, which is the typical practice for administrations after they identify new funding needs during the year.
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« Reply #77 on: January 11, 2019, 11:36:14 AM »

I figured today would be the day things get more serious, but apparently congress packed up and went home for the weekend at COB yesterday.

That's kind of an opening for Trump to do the "emergency" thing, which I still don't like, because:

"I'm declaring a health care emergency and implementing single payer"
"I'm declaring a gun violence emergency and banning semi-auto firearms"
"I'm declaring a climate emergency and mandating a 100% tax on fossil fuels"



If it worked that way, Obama would have banned semi-autos a few years ago.
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« Reply #78 on: January 11, 2019, 11:37:48 AM »

An argument for the state of emergency.

https://ricochet.com/587567/declare-national-border-emergency-kill-two-birds-with-one-stone/
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jamisjockey
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« Reply #79 on: January 13, 2019, 05:01:20 AM »

https://news.yahoo.com/air-traffic-controllers-union-sues-over-unpaid-during-182600191.html
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JD

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« Reply #80 on: January 13, 2019, 06:38:45 AM »

While I continue to lean towards "it takes two to tango" regarding this dragging out, I do give Trump credit for sticking it out at the White House all weekend waiting to talk to someone. Most of Congress went home for a long weekend on Thursday. A select subset including some of the loudest mouths, went to Puerto Rico to party. Ironically to a "Hispanic Caucus PAC" shingdig.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrats-fly-to-puerto-rico-amid-ongoing-government-shutdown
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« Reply #81 on: January 14, 2019, 02:49:10 AM »

I'm not entirely buying the two to tango thing. This is almost entirely on the Dems. They have promised border security and immigration fixes in the past and never followed through. In 1986 Reagan signed the amnesty based on this promise, then the Dems reneged on their promise. There was a bill passed in 2006 mandating a border fence, the Dems keep blocking budget for it. The Dems will not negotiate in good faith if Trump accepts their current proposals, so he really has no choice but to wait for them to allocate budget for physical barriers on the border. If he just accepts what they want now, then they will never add budget for it and we will end up right back here again. And no he couldn't do it when he had the house and senate(he never really had the senate, if you don't have 60 reliable votes you don't really control the senate.)

I feel bad for those that might be experiencing financial issues with the shutdown, but I've had the same happen to me in the private sector with unpaid forced vacations. Except I had to work and never got paid for it, not really legal, but emergencies come up and if you want to keep your job you do what you got to do; government employees will actually get paid in the end. Government employees should be focusing on the Dems in Congress with their ire.
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Ron
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« Reply #82 on: January 14, 2019, 05:58:46 AM »

Government employees are under constant ôOrange Man Badö conditioning even moreso than the typical consumer of media propaganda.

Their social standing and livelihood could be endangered if they are too vocal supporting Trump OR blaming the Democrats.

It is very oppressive working in overtly progressive establishments if you are a person on the right. You have to tread lightly lest you be considered ôproblematicö or subversive  and they question your team loyalty.

Iĺm sure there are a small minority of Trumpsters in the bureaucracy but they probably arenĺt trumpeting that fact at work.
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« Reply #83 on: January 14, 2019, 06:16:55 AM »

Government employees should be focusing on the Dems in Congress with their ire.

I agree with that.

I'm actually surprised that Trump, King of the attack Twitter, hasn't done tweets this morning in the vein of "Welcome back dems, from the luxury vacations you took this weekend while gov employees go without pay!" Of course no one seemed to care that Congess all took off over the holidays either. Pelosi hung out in the most expensive resort in Hawaii and that was cool. If Trump would have done similar, the fed unions would have been up in arms.

Not that it will sway most gov employees though. In my ~20 years, I learned that dems can commit murder and the majority of fed.gov employees will still support them and blame a Republican for the murder. Outside of the military and some specific agencies, I would say that runs about 80%/20%.
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« Reply #84 on: January 14, 2019, 11:32:46 AM »

Government employees should be focusing on the Dems in Congress with their ire.

I blame the GOP for not getting the wall built when they had full control.
I blame the dems for refusing any meaningful negotiations.
I blame the American people for voting  for idiots, morons, sexual predators and greedy pols.

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JD

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« Reply #85 on: January 14, 2019, 12:57:12 PM »

https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/14/smoke-out-resistance/

Here's a perspective (purportedly from an administration official) that without the bureaucrats actively sabotaging things, more of the President's agenda is getting done during the "shutdown".
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« Reply #86 on: January 14, 2019, 01:27:49 PM »

How did air traffic controllers get tossed in the non-essential bucket?
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« Reply #87 on: January 14, 2019, 01:29:12 PM »

How did air traffic controllers get tossed in the non-essential bucket?

They're not. They're in the same bucket as the USCG: essential and unpaid.
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« Reply #88 on: January 14, 2019, 02:22:20 PM »

CBP and ICE are also working with no pay right now.  I honestly haven't paid any attention to whether all of DHS is working right now
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« Reply #89 on: January 14, 2019, 04:08:36 PM »

How did air traffic controllers get tossed in the non-essential bucket?

We're essential.  Which means working without pay. However, a lot of our support staff are controllers on assignment, and unless they're "current" in the operation they're furloughed.

DHS and Treasury are both unfunded as well.  That means all DHS is working without pay along with SS.

So our Union filed a lawsuit over being unpaid and required to work.  They requested an expedited hearing against the Government over it, and it's expected that tomorrow the restraining order against uncle sam will be granted by the judge in the case (he indicated in the first hearing that it was a very strong case).  A couple possible outcomes
1) Immediate paid status for all essential personnel.
2) Pay status at federal minimum wage
3) The most interesting one to me, and the one I hope, is that the judge rules we cannot be required to work in a non pay status.  By the governments rules we would all go on furlough just like everyone else.  That would shut the National Airspace System down.  I'd expect the shutdown to be over by the end of that day...
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JD

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« Reply #90 on: January 14, 2019, 05:16:42 PM »

VFR flying baby!
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« Reply #91 on: January 14, 2019, 05:34:43 PM »

We're essential.  Which means working without pay. However, a lot of our support staff are controllers on assignment, and unless they're "current" in the operation they're furloughed.

DHS and Treasury are both unfunded as well.  That means all DHS is working without pay along with SS.

So our Union filed a lawsuit over being unpaid and required to work.  They requested an expedited hearing against the Government over it, and it's expected that tomorrow the restraining order against uncle sam will be granted by the judge in the case (he indicated in the first hearing that it was a very strong case).  A couple possible outcomes
1) Immediate paid status for all essential personnel.
2) Pay status at federal minimum wage
3) The most interesting one to me, and the one I hope, is that the judge rules we cannot be required to work in a non pay status.  By the governments rules we would all go on furlough just like everyone else.  That would shut the National Airspace System down.  I'd expect the shutdown to be over by the end of that day...

This is what should have happened from the start. I'm as good a small l libertarian as the next guy, but I'm sick of people I know on FB running with the "keep the gov shut down, I haven't even noticed " meme.  No *expletive deleted*it Sherlock, they didn't actually close anything you would notice.

If we're going to do a shut down, do it. Then we can decide for real how much we need the feds.
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Ron
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« Reply #92 on: January 14, 2019, 06:02:18 PM »

All essential personal should be paid if they are on the job.

Working = paid

Not working = not paid
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« Reply #93 on: January 15, 2019, 06:40:58 AM »

One good result of the shutdown in the Chicago area is a noticeable reduction in the amount of traffic.  It makes for a much nicer commute.  It's the same way on federal holidays that aren't commonly a holiday for the private sector, Columbus Day, Arbor Day, etc.
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« Reply #94 on: January 15, 2019, 11:20:12 AM »

Interesting undercurrent that no one in Washington has been talking about.

I am reading that federal workers that have been furloughed for 30 days are eligible for RIF.

I don't know if this is part of the plan of dragging out the shutdown, but laying off hundreds of thousands of Democrats would be a fun exercise.
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« Reply #95 on: January 15, 2019, 11:29:22 AM »

Yep. Only the President should be blamed, nothing to do with the Dems that wonĺt even show up to talk...

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/425425-democrats-turn-down-white-house-invitation-for-shutdown-talks?amp
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jamisjockey
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« Reply #96 on: January 15, 2019, 11:37:40 AM »

Interesting undercurrent that no one in Washington has been talking about.

I am reading that federal workers that have been furloughed for 30 days are eligible for RIF.

I don't know if this is part of the plan of dragging out the shutdown, but laying off hundreds of thousands of Democrats would be a fun exercise.

LOL that would be entertaining, since  Treasury, Homeland, FAA are on the list.  Yeah RIF all the controllers out see how that goes...or all of the secret service employees...  Face Palm!
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JD

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« Reply #97 on: January 15, 2019, 11:39:44 AM »

Yep. Only the President should be blamed, nothing to do with the Dems that wonĺt even show up to talk...

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/425425-democrats-turn-down-white-house-invitation-for-shutdown-talks?amp

I was about to post that. Apparently Pelosi is screeching "Not one single dollar!" and Schumer is saying, "Open the gov and we'll talk". That's sorta like "We've got to pass it to find out what's in it."

This particular thing falls squarely and 100% on the dems, but Trump will get 100% of the blame.
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« Reply #98 on: January 15, 2019, 11:40:36 AM »

This is what should have happened from the start. I'm as good a small l libertarian as the next guy, but I'm sick of people I know on FB running with the "keep the gov shut down, I haven't even noticed " meme.  No *expletive deleted*it Sherlock, they didn't actually close anything you would notice.

If we're going to do a shut down, do it. Then we can decide for real how much we need the feds.

We lost on the TRO today.  Judge's response was typical activism, refusing to give a ruling from the law and or constitution.
Said only the Congress can appropriate funds, and that furloughing all the controllers would be dangerous.
This *expletive deleted*it's going to drag on now for awhile.
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JD

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« Reply #99 on: January 15, 2019, 11:41:22 AM »

I was about to post that. Apparently Pelosi is screeching "Not one single dollar!" and Schumer is saying, "Open the gov and we'll talk". That's sorta like "We've got to pass it to find out what's in it."

This particular thing falls squarely and 100% on the dems, but Trump will get 100% of the blame.

Bull.  The GOP had 2 years to get the wall built.  There's more than enough blame to go around.
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JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. ôRobert Hollisö
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