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Author Topic: Wal Mart policy is now enforced by law  (Read 651 times)
Hawkmoon
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« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2019, 12:41:44 AM »

This incident went down in Muskogee, OK? If so, the cops were sucking wind.

Terry v. Ohio allows a brief stop if there is a reasonable suspicion based on clearly articulable facts that a crime is being committed, has been committed, or is about to be committed. Terry does not provide grounds for demanding identification outside those narrow parameters. And, if I understand it correctly, Terry is satisfied if the subject just says "My name Jose Jimenez" (if, of course, that's his name). Terry does not appear to require production of a physical document.

Hiibel (a Supreme Court case building on Terry) involves state ID laws. Only 23 states have them, and only a few require production of a physical document. Oklahoma is not one of the 23.
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Amy Schumer
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« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2019, 04:31:36 AM »

Right at about 3:44 the manager says he want him "banned" or trespassed from the store.  At that point refusing to give his name is obstruction.

Now, we only have the latter part of the video after the police arrive.  So I can only assume the guy was such a royal prick to cause Wal-Mart to call  the police on him PRIOR to the start of the video.
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2019, 05:32:42 AM »

Still depends on how the criminal trespass law is written for Oklahoma. In many states, the first time is only ejection, not a criminal offense. If he is given notice not to darken their doors again, and he subsequently returns, that's when it becomes criminal trespass.

We don't have enough information. I agree the guy acted like to jerk. I'm not convinced that he did anything criminal.
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2019, 05:40:15 AM »

Oklahoma statute:

Quote
Title 21. Crimes and Punishments
ž21-1835.1. Entry or presence upon premises of place of business of persons convicted of certain crimes.
Universal Citation: 21 OK Stat ž 21-1835.1 (2014)

A. Every person, partnership, corporation or other legal entity engaged in any public business, trade, or profession of any kind wherein merchandise, goods or services are offered for sale may forbid the entry or presence of any person upon the premises of the place of business, if the person has been convicted of a crime involving entry onto or criminal acts occurring upon any real property owned, leased, or under the control of such person, partnership, corporation or other legal entity. Such crimes shall include, but are not limited to, shoplifting, vandalism, and disturbing the peace while upon the premises of any place of business of the person, partnership, corporation, or other legal entity.

B. In order to exercise the authority conferred by subsection A of this section, the owner or an agent of the owner of a public business, trade, or profession must notify the person whom the owner or agent desires to prohibit from such owner's place of business.

C. No person shall willfully enter or remain upon the premises after being expressly forbidden to do so in the manner provided for in this section. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this section, upon conviction, shall be guilty of trespass and shall be punished by a fine of not more than Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00) or by confinement in the county jail for a term of not more than thirty (30) days, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

D. The provisions of this act shall not preclude any other remedy allowed by law.

Source: https://law.justia.com/codes/oklahoma/2014/title-21/section-21-1835.1/
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HeroHog
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« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2019, 10:49:20 AM »

Quote
A. Every person, partnership, corporation or other legal entity engaged in any public business, trade, or profession of any kind wherein merchandise, goods or services are offered for sale may forbid the entry or presence of any person upon the premises of the place of business, if the person has been convicted of a crime involving entry onto or criminal acts occurring upon any real property owned, leased, or under the control of such person, partnership, corporation or other legal entity. Such crimes shall include, but are not limited to, shoplifting, vandalism, and disturbing the peace while upon the premises of any place of business of the person, partnership, corporation, or other legal entity.

So, get back to me when you can show that I have been CONVICTED of a crime then?
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Yeah, whatever...
gunsmith
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« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2019, 09:06:20 PM »

Right at about 3:44 the manager says he want him "banned" or trespassed from the store.  At that point refusing to give his name is obstruction.

Now, we only have the latter part of the video after the police arrive.  So I can only assume the guy was such a royal prick to cause Wal-Mart to call  the police on him PRIOR to the start of the video.

ah, but he actually gives his name-just not his ID-perfectly legal.
A: beginning of video 1 cop.
cop detains him unlawfully for ID
B: more cops, argument ensues, he identifies himself, still unlawfully detained.
C: cops, while being videotaped ask fauxRed if she "would like to tresspass him/charge him with disorderly"
D: Arrest him, rather than allow him to leave which he had asked to do a few times.
Was he a jerk?
Absolutely - he probably really needed a drink, really needs to walk, really needs to be treated with courtesy and respect and really needs to evaluate the hills he dies for.
I think the cops were unjust/unwise/unlawful.
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dogmush
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« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2019, 05:06:22 AM »

The cops could have handled it better, but here's the issue: the genesis of the whole situation rests squarely on his shoulders.

Walmart is allowed to have their policies. Once he had decided that he didn't want to comply with Walmart's policy on selling their stuff, he should have left. 

Acting like an entitled ass, as if Walmart is somehow obligated to sell him things, obligated to explain anything to his satisfaction,  or that the police are obligated to explain anything to him is what got him in this situation.

The fact that he was still there, arguing, after the time it took the first cop to show up is where he went wrong, and why the lion's share of the consequences are on him. 
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gunsmith
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« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2019, 01:31:58 PM »

The cops could have handled it better, but here's the issue: the genesis of the whole situation rests squarely on his shoulders.

Walmart is allowed to have their policies. Once he had decided that he didn't want to comply with Walmart's policy on selling their stuff, he should have left. 

Acting like an entitled ass, as if Walmart is somehow obligated to sell him things, obligated to explain anything to his satisfaction,  or that the police are obligated to explain anything to him is what got him in this situation.

The fact that he was still there, arguing, after the time it took the first cop to show up is where he went wrong, and why the lion's share of the consequences are on him. 


for the most part, I agree-however he asked for a printed copy of their policy and they told him they would get it, while he was waiting that is when the cops came.
I guess that's legal but underhanded.
So, I guess I agree that it is his fault , however the police are not supposed to punish you for being a dumb jerk and instead of ending the situation they coached fauxRed into pressing charges and apparently severely injured the guy.
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Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populous like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".

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tokugawa
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« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2019, 03:23:33 PM »

The guys crime was not being subservient enough.
 
This sort of reminds me of the nurse that got manhandled and arrested because she would not do the cops bidding to draw blood from a suspect.
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gunsmith
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« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2019, 06:18:14 PM »

The guys crime was not being subservient enough.
 
This sort of reminds me of the nurse that got manhandled and arrested because she would not do the cops bidding to draw blood from a suspect.

kinda my feeling too
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Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populous like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".

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RoadKingLarry
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« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2019, 06:58:32 PM »

The guys crime was not being subservient enough.
 
This sort of reminds me of the nurse that got manhandled and arrested because she would not do the cops bidding to draw blood from a suspect.

I don't remember hearing the final (if any) outcome of that little side show.
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2019, 09:08:13 PM »

I don't remember hearing the final (if any) outcome of that little side show.


The nurse wasn't charged, and the cop lost his job.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/detective-jeff-payne-fired-nurse-alex-wubbels-video/
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Amy Schumer
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« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2019, 12:20:36 PM »

The guys crime was not being subservient enough.
 
This sort of reminds me of the nurse that got manhandled and arrested because she would not do the cops bidding to draw blood from a suspect.

The guys crime was being a such a jerkwad in wal-mart that they had to call the cops on him.  We don't know what he did prior to the arrival of the Po-po and the video, but it was enough that Wal-mart decided that he was so out of control that police were needed to handle it.

Again, don't be a *expletive deleted*tard in walmart and the police don't get called on you.
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Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on for the motherland.
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