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Author Topic: Woman in Coma for 10 Years Gives Birth  (Read 1826 times)
Ben
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« on: January 04, 2019, 06:49:35 AM »

I bet this is one that gives the resident Risk Manager nightmares. What the hell is wrong with people?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/woman-in-vegetative-state-for-10-years-gives-births-to-baby
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2019, 07:01:07 AM »

Well, wait until they do blood/DNA tests on all the male staff that were working there 9 months ago.  Sadly, this sort of thing happens more often than you would think. And not just people in comas, but people who are severely mentally or physically disabled and incapable of giving consent and/or resisting.  Inevitably, it is male staff doing this to female patients/residents. I have never heard of the reverse.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.
makattak
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2019, 07:11:31 AM »

Are cameras in every room too much of a HIPPA risk? (I assume the cost would be worth the risk mitigation, but I'm wondering about other factors involved.)
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2019, 07:25:03 AM »

Well, wait until they do blood/DNA tests on all the male staff that were working there 9 months ago.  Sadly, this sort of thing happens more often than you would think. And not just people in comas, but people who are severely mentally or physically disabled and incapable of giving consent and/or resisting.  Inevitably, it is male staff doing this to female patients/residents. I have never heard of the reverse.

Unfortunately, true.  Helped with the investigation/prosecution of a few cases back in the day.  Also unfortunate, it was also male staff doing this to disabled male patients.  Always liked seeing the staff members cry when the prison sentences were announced.
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2019, 07:34:50 AM »

Unfortunately, true.  Helped with the investigation/prosecution of a few cases back in the day.  Also unfortunate, it was also male staff doing this to disabled male patients.  Always liked seeing the staff members cry when the prison sentences were announced.

We need the back of courthouses to have a thick stone wall and one tall wooden post....
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MillCreek
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« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2019, 07:36:27 AM »

Are cameras in every room too much of a HIPPA risk? (I assume the cost would be worth the risk mitigation, but I'm wondering about other factors involved.)

I have participated in a handful of cases in which video cameras were surreptitiously placed in patient care rooms.  Each of those cases were situations in which we suspected either abuse by family or staff, or Munchausen's by proxy by family members, virtually always the mother.  Generally speaking, you have to be very cautious about doing video surveillance in areas in which you have a reasonable expectation of privacy.  The staff unions would also have a fit.  Hallways or public areas are one thing, patient/resident rooms or bathrooms would be quite another thing. You have more latitude when you are investigating suspected crimes or the like.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.
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« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2019, 08:34:52 AM »

Find him, cut his balls off, throw him in gen pop. Let the problem of his miserable existence work itself out.

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« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2019, 09:01:55 AM »

Wasn't this how the movie 'Kill Bill' started?
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« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2019, 10:35:51 AM »

Amy Schumer, not stone, Railroad ties, less chance of ricochet.
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« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2019, 12:27:34 PM »

I seem to remember one proposed method:  Tie him to a big mill stone and throw them and stone in deep water. 
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« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2019, 01:02:39 PM »

I seem to remember one proposed method:  Tie him to a big mill stone and throw them and stone in deep water. 

Makes it difficult to reuse the stone.  A single bullet is cheaper.
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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2019, 01:05:09 PM »

Makes it difficult to reuse the stone.  A single bullet is cheaper.

There were no bullets back when that method was proposed.

They did have swords and spears.  And crosses.  Hmmm . . .
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« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2019, 01:43:17 PM »

Surely there's a pig farm nearby.
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« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2019, 06:55:32 PM »

A wise man once said "rope is cheap,  gravity is free".
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« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2019, 07:14:03 PM »

I bet this is one that gives the resident Risk Manager nightmares. What the hell is wrong with people?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/woman-in-vegetative-state-for-10-years-gives-births-to-baby

https://www.chesterton.org/wrong-with-world/


Well, wait until they do blood/DNA tests on all the male staff that were working there 9 months ago.  Sadly, this sort of thing happens more often than you would think. And not just people in comas, but people who are severely mentally or physically disabled and incapable of giving consent and/or resisting.  Inevitably, it is male staff doing this to female patients/residents. I have never heard of the reverse.

Sexist!
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« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2019, 07:15:52 PM »

There were times in my old job, usually during the consumption of copious amounts of alcohol, that we would play the "how to kill the pervert" game.  Women, especially mothers, can be downright frightening during in ng that game.
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« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2019, 07:16:38 PM »

Well, wait until they do blood/DNA tests on all the male staff that were working there 9 months ago.  


One of those things one never thinks about: what kind of security do hospitals provide to comatose patients, to keep people from just wandering in and taking things, assaulting the patient, etc? Can visitors just wander in from the hallways? Are there standards/best practices about that?
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« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2019, 07:44:33 PM »

As a general rule, hospital security and controlling access has gotten tighter over the past 20 years or so.  In the old days, visiting hours were maybe 1-2 hours, and all visitors had to pass by the nursing station first before they could see a patient.  Nowadays, for the general medical/surg/labor and delivery wards, visiting hours are longer and access to the ward may be much more open.  This improves patient satisfaction and makes the patients and family happier.

The level of security on a hospital ward depends on what type of care is provided there. The highest security is going to be on a locked forensic psych ward or the correctional healthcare ward, where the mentally-ill criminals or the hospitalized criminals are kept.  Next comes the newborn nursery, in which access is controlled through locked doors, every baby gets a baby LoJack and the doors automatically lock and alarms go off if someone tries to remove a baby without deactivating the baby LoJack.  Then comes the intensive care units that also often have either locked doors or the entrance goes through the ward front desk, so they can keep an eye out on comings and goings.  This is also the usual setup for people in comas or other profound neurological issues.  The typical med/surg ward is more open with little access control.

The Joint Commission, which is the primary accreditation agency of hospitals does have security criteria, and harm to a patient from an assault at the hospital is a 'never event'. 'Never events' are bad, and worse things can happen to your accreditation and penalties against the hospital can happen due to 'never events'. https://psnet.ahrq.gov/primers/primer/3/never-events
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.
Hawkmoon
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« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2019, 08:14:03 PM »

I had the impression from the article that the facility is a nursing home, not a hospital.
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« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2019, 08:42:58 PM »

There were times in my old job, usually during the consumption of copious amounts of alcohol, that we would play the "how to kill the pervert" game.  Women, especially mothers, can be downright frightening during in ng that game.

My two favorites;
Death by Daisy. The duly convicted is stripped naked, tied spread eagle to a wall and shot to death with a Daisy Red Rider BB gun, no head shots above the neck.

Big Hole:
Dig a big hole with a back hoe, throw convicted animal into hole, fill in hole. Park back hoe on top of filled in hole overnight. No wasteful and expensive steps like execution needed.
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« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2019, 08:57:32 PM »

I understand hospital security needs for stuff like this, but do not care at all for the general concept that hospitals have a right to make you stay. Comes up in the course when a family member says if they're going to die they want to do it outside the hospital. Look, we're leaving, good luck with your policies. I usually come and go by the stairwells, game the visitor pass deal, tag along when ccu doors open for someone else etc. I'm going to see my family member and the only reason he is playing nice is that if he just walks out then Medicare doesn't pay.
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« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2019, 07:33:40 AM »

As a general rule, hospital security and controlling access has gotten tighter over the past 20 years or so.  In the old days, visiting hours were maybe 1-2 hours, and all visitors had to pass by the nursing station first before they could see a patient.  Nowadays, for the general medical/surg/labor and delivery wards, visiting hours are longer and access to the ward may be much more open.  This improves patient satisfaction and makes the patients and family happier.

The level of security on a hospital ward depends on what type of care is provided there. The highest security is going to be on a locked forensic psych ward or the correctional healthcare ward, where the mentally-ill criminals or the hospitalized criminals are kept.  Next comes the newborn nursery, in which access is controlled through locked doors, every baby gets a baby LoJack and the doors automatically lock and alarms go off if someone tries to remove a baby without deactivating the baby LoJack.  Then comes the intensive care units that also often have either locked doors or the entrance goes through the ward front desk, so they can keep an eye out on comings and goings.  This is also the usual setup for people in comas or other profound neurological issues.  The typical med/surg ward is more open with little access control.

The Joint Commission, which is the primary accreditation agency of hospitals does have security criteria, and harm to a patient from an assault at the hospital is a 'never event'. 'Never events' are bad, and worse things can happen to your accreditation and penalties against the hospital can happen due to 'never events'. https://psnet.ahrq.gov/primers/primer/3/never-events

Well there go my plans to draw elaborate mustaches on the comatose.  sad
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MillCreek
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« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2019, 07:53:16 AM »

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/09/us/vegetative-state-birth-woman.html

So the police are tracking down all the male employees who worked there and are collecting swabs.  I see also that the patient suffered a devastating neurological injury at age three, and had been in the nursing home ever since.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.
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« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2019, 08:07:11 AM »

Queue monstrous questions from the local AnCap:

Who is paying for her stay at this facility from age 3 (1992) to today (2019), the last 27-ish years?

Who is now suggesting that gubmint pay MORE for this person's safety and continued perimeter protection in perpetuity, and other people in similar states?

Whoever raped this poor girl is a monster and I'm eager for him and any accomplices to receive justice or retribution.  Don't really care which.  But I want to know if/why the public is on the hook for the care costs of a 3 year old that has been in a coma for 27 years, 90% of her life.  From what I gather she's effectively brain-dead.  Yes, she's the very embodiment of everything that is vulnerable and I feel empathy for that.  But it doesn't mean the whole public should have to pay for it.
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« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2019, 08:19:03 AM »

Quote
Who is paying for her stay at this facility from age 3 (1992) to today (2019), the last 27-ish years?

That's a tough one, it could be partially/fully funded by Social Security or it could be partially/fully funded by an insurance payout in the millions of dollars due to the circumstances of her injury. We don't know nor will we ever know most likely.

Quote
But I want to know if/why the public is on the hook for the care costs of a 3 year old that has been in a coma for 27 years, 90% of her life.  From what I gather she's effectively brain-dead.  Yes, she's the very embodiment of everything that is vulnerable and I feel empathy for that.  But it doesn't mean the whole public should have to pay for it.

So, you are in favor of euthanasia if the government is on the hook for prolonged care of a person's body if the mind has stopped functioning and there is no other source of funding? Is it OK if we keep the ones with private pay alive because it isn't costing the .gov (we the people) any money? Just trying to get a handle on the ground rules here. Do we then extend these rules to people with advanced dementia because they also need tons of care on the .gov dime?

bob
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