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Author Topic: The Deep State  (Read 315 times)
Ron
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« on: January 06, 2019, 07:26:52 AM »

The permanent bureaucracy, the elitists, The Illuminati, The New World Order etc.

On the right we frequently refer to our government or those pulling the politicians strings as a monolithic thing or organization that wields power behind the scenes for its own reasons usually in opposition to the public good.

Just how true do you think that is? Is there actually an organized ôshadow governmentö that manipulates national and world events from behind the scenes?

Trump has definitely played on those fears. If there is truly a cabal of bad actors then his moving the Overton Window by talking about it as President is pretty significant.

If there is no organized ôdeep stateö in collusion with other nations deep states then what is the alternative that explains the crazy spy vs spy stuff that appears to be going on in the attempt to take out Trump?

Myself, I believe there is definitely a coordinated network of global billionaires who are trying to manage the world. Most nations governments are in partnership with them to one degree or another. There may be factions, just like our mostly monolithic political class is divided into two primary factions.

I think Trump is part of a competing faction of billionaires and actually might be a true nationalist.

Of course all we know is what the media tells us and what we can discern through all the noise on the internet.

Ive been wrong about a lot over the years so I donĺt take my musings so seriously any longer. But I certainly donĺt believe ANY official narratives.

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DittoHead
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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2019, 09:14:58 AM »

No doubt there are very rich people out there who use their money to exert political influence. Soros and the Kochs are not that secretive about it. Iĺm sure there are many others that do so with more secrecy however Iĺm pretty skeptical about them ôcoordinatingö (colluding! shocked) that much with each other in some nefarious way. They certainly do involve themselves in government functions but there are many benign reasons to do so.

The permanent bureaucracy is also real, however it has been for a long time. Part of the reason people take a job in government is for the stability and thatĺs going to result in a lot of people that are more or less ôpermanentö. Thatĺs not always a bad thing, but it certainly can go sour and probably has in some areas. However, again I'm skeptical that it's part of a significantly larger over-arching plot by lizard people.

The Illuminati/NWO/shadow government conspiracy stuff is too far fetched for me and I do think that the amount of hatred focused on ôelitesö is a bit absurd. Especially from people who love Trump (an elite) and were probably aghast at the left's "class envy" 10 years ago.
The problem with populism Ś and indeed with much of American politics Ś is that it focuses on the political at the expense of the personal. As Iĺve argued many times, there are wounds that public policy canĺt heal. But populism too often pretends otherwise. It tells a fundamentally false story about Americans as victims of a heartless elite and their ôworshipö of market economics rather than the true story of America as a flawed society that still grants its citizens access to tremendous opportunity.
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HankB
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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2019, 10:51:34 AM »

It doesn't need to be organized with robes, rituals, secret handshakes, etc. It's probably more a matter of entrenched bureaucrats promoting/advancing subordinates who think the way they do . . . who in turn, do the same once THEY reach positions with more authority. Pretty soon the organization's entire "culture" is based on an entrenched bureaucracy focused almost entirely on self-perpetuation, with fulfillment of its stated original mission (and incidentally, the good of the country) an afterthought.

Sort of the same way news organizations became more left-leaning; newbie liberals get the plum assignments, and impartial, fair, or conservative-leaning newcomers get sent to Somalia.

Although NOW it wouldn't surprise me if they've devolved to the point where they have actual "how do we get Trump" meetings behind closed doors.
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2019, 11:40:49 AM »

I don't think of "deep state" as being the same as, or even necessarily allied with, the Illuminati/NWO forces. I view Deep State as being the countless federal employees who are beneath the level of presidential appointment and who are, therefore, career civil service employees. They don't care who is in office, and they don't care which party controls anything. The reality is that they effectively control the government.

The same is true at the state level. Closer to home, on the state level, I have worked on projects alongside state agency employees and I have seen the mentaility -- and the result -- "up close and personal." It's not pretty.
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grampster
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2019, 06:03:23 PM »

I worked in government when I was young.  The type of job I had before I was 21 moved me around through various bureaus of the PD.  Even then I saw the mismanagement or bureau chief syndrome.  Mostly it had to do with budgets so they spent money instead of being frugal because if they didn't spend it, the higher ups took it away.  That was my first lesson in how entities become corrupted from inside.

Then I spent 37 years working for a large insurance company.  That was even worse because of the competition between  many more departments.  Main office power struggles vs field offices were probably the worse.  Power and money pitted departments against each other.  It became obvious to me that internal competition became more important than delivering the product to the consumer.  When I started in 1969 we were small management wise and decentralized and all about product and service and we grew and we profited.  By the time I left my company didn't resemble the successful entity that it was.  When I left it was all about large centralized competing management entities.   Growth through buying up other companies, large profits became the focus with lip service paid to product and service.

I think it's just human nature.  The more powerful and wealthy people become, the more they want more power and wealth.  There are exceptions of course.  So spread that human nature out in the macro sense and the state of the world becomes very clear.
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RoadKingLarry
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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2019, 06:12:08 PM »

Quote
Growth through buying up other companies, large profits became the focus with lip service paid to product and service.

I've seen that "business model" at three companies I've worked for.
The first two are long gone. The current corporation is, in my opinion, plowing ahead on sheer momentum due to it's size.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Sindawe
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2019, 06:23:46 PM »

Quote
The more powerful and wealthy people become, the more they want more power and wealth.  There are exceptions of course.

Don't discount the drive to control, that's part of this thing as well.  And a powerful drive it is indeed.

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Andiron
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2019, 07:20:02 PM »

When I think deep state,  it's more along the lines of those two idiots at the FBI that thought they were going to take down Trump and dumb/arrogant enough to text the whole thing.
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RoadKingLarry
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2019, 07:55:36 PM »

When I think deep state,  it's more along the lines of those two idiots at the FBI that thought they were going to take down Trump and dumb/arrogant enough to text the whole thing.

Well, It's not like they suffered any serious consequences from it.
I'm sure they'll all see multi million $$ book deals in the near future.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams
lee n. field
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2019, 09:19:44 AM »

Conspiratainment is fun to indulge.  But, I think it would be more interesting to look at the people telling them, and how the stories spread, than the content.

Quote
Of course all we know is what the media tells us and what we can discern through all the noise on the internet.

Ive been wrong about a lot over the years so I donĺt take my musings so seriously any longer. But I certainly donĺt believe ANY official narratives.

We to try to make sense of a world where things very evidently do not work the way they say it does.

I suspect real conspiracies (and conflicting ones), in a context of deep institutional inertia.
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At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.
gunsmith
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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2019, 07:09:57 PM »

there are real conspiracies - the sixties were full of them, cointelpro apparently was a real thing.
"They" did test LSD and other stuff on the unsuspecting.
JFK/RFK/ maybe MLK assassinations. ( I think marilyn monroe was assassinated too )

However, I think that the whole rothchilds/pizzagate/Qanon etc noise is an annoying smokescreen for real cloak/dagger stuff.
right/left are both guilty ( probably, i offer no proof )

these guys have put out interesting stuff but its simply entertainment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rl4vCu30v4

it angers me that there is sooo dang much bovine poop out there that we don't hear or believe "real" conspiracies.

I am very, very, suspicious of the vegas strip shooting.
I met a very level headed, sober Entrepreneur/vender  who was present at the shooting - this person was no conspiracy buff and votes center D -
This person assured me there was more than two shooters and this person also thinks the official story is a lie.

( note: the suspects house was broken into and looted after the shooting/the hard drive on his laptop is missing )

on the grand scale, i doubt that some family/aliens/skull-bones/group own/control everything
I simply believe that there are factions competing for power.

Also, we have many evil stupid people getting govt paychecks.

The BTK killer was a code enforcement officer, I think the govt attracts/promotes those ilk
 
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Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populous like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".

Out where there are miles and miles of miles and miles.
gunsmith
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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2019, 07:16:24 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pc2DFSCwsI

"whatabout" the slush fund congress has to settle sexual harassment lawsuits?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/opinion/congress-sexual-harassment.html
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Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populous like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".

Out where there are miles and miles of miles and miles.
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