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Author Topic: EMS agencies carrying weapons at work  (Read 1110 times)
charby
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« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2019, 07:11:57 AM »

BUT WAIT! Maybe Trump has been determined to build the wall and decease the number of illegal alien muderers. And maybe I am fated to support and defend him. So why are you fighting against that? God has determined it will happen, and you can do nothing about it. Just deal with the fact that fewer illegal aliens murderers will be here to do the murdering that Americans won't do.

Why aren't we going after the people who hire the illegal immigrants, the ones who give them a reason to come to this country in  the first place? This would be way more effective than any wall/increased border security.

Someone else also countered my over stayed visas, so why aren't we going after them, should be seeing busses every where escorting people to airports to be send home to their country of origins?
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charby
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« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2019, 07:14:29 AM »

Charby, if you actually have honest questions I can refer you to better sources of Theology than John Piper.

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Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

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fistful
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« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2019, 07:41:36 AM »

Because people almost always seem to get screwed on pennies on the dollar on these deals, and the amount of land that would have to be purchased at full market value for a "complete" wall would be astronomical. It's easy to say eminent domain is applicable when it's not your ox being gored. Just like, "Ban semi-autos!  I don't have one and it's for the children!"

Easy now. It's possible to defend eminent domain as a valid, constitutional power of the government, but not be on board with every instance of it.

For me, it's mostly other people's oxen being gored on the immigration issue. I haven't noticed that it affects me directly, either way.
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My name is Josh. If you speak English, you can figure out the pronouns yourself. I'm not gonna do it for you.
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« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2019, 07:45:23 AM »

Why aren't we going after the people who hire the illegal immigrants, the ones who give them a reason to come to this country in  the first place? This would be way more effective than any wall/increased border security.

Someone else also countered my over stayed visas, so why aren't we going after them, should be seeing busses every where escorting people to airports to be send home to their country of origins?

I remember that APS board meeting where we decided we only cared about a wall, and decided to never care about lapsed visas, or scofflaw employers; but I don't remember why we made that decision. I guess it was the racism.
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My name is Josh. If you speak English, you can figure out the pronouns yourself. I'm not gonna do it for you.
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« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2019, 07:48:36 AM »

Easy now. It's possible to defend eminent domain as a valid, constitutional power of the government, but not be on board with every instance of it.

Did you miss where I'm moving to Idaho, flying the Gadsden Flag, and setting up a cannon to keep the revenuers off my property?  grin
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« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2019, 07:49:46 AM »

Why aren't we going after the people who hire the illegal immigrants, the ones who give them a reason to come to this country in  the first place? This would be way more effective than any wall/increased border security.

Someone else also countered my over stayed visas, so why aren't we going after them, should be seeing busses every where escorting people to airports to be send home to their country of origins?

We should be doing that.

The reason for the wall is that built infrastructure cannot be "scaled back" by the Democrats once they get into power again and decide to encourage law-breaking by foreign nationals once again.

The wall is the single most important piece of this because we cannot trust the opposition to continue enforcement actions. We need a "concrete" commitment to stopping foreign invasions. The Left has lied OVER and OVER and OVER again that "this time we'll REALLY stop the invasions, once we just naturalize another 10 million!" and then somehow the same situation continues.

Even beyond those lies, the reason for the wall is that we don't trust our political enemies to follow the law. We already see how attorneys general will refuse to defend laws they don't agree with and "settle" with litigants that they actually agree with. It is happening in Michigan as we speak, in fact.

So your other enforcement measures are welcome, but insufficient because we know the left will simply stop enforcing them once they get power. At least the wall will still be there and destroying it will exact a significant political price as it will be open defiance of the will of the voters.
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ôWisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.ö
Ben
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« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2019, 07:57:10 AM »

The reason for the wall is that built infrastructure cannot be "scaled back" by the Democrats once they get into power again and decide to encourage law-breaking by foreign nationals once again.


That's a very good point. Drone money, personnel money, etc. can disappear in a heartbeat. Hard to disappear a physical barrier. Though I think that even the "strategic locations" option that I'm in favor of would require a second term for Trump. While building could start in the next year, I think even just getting sections completed will take some years.

A new dem President "with a pen and phone" could potentially halt construction. If not construction in progress, then construction scheduled for the future. Though pre-Trump, dems were in favor of barriers, so maybe they would actually continue construction and just take credit for it.
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cordex
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« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2019, 10:33:52 AM »

Why aren't we going after the people who hire the illegal immigrants, the ones who give them a reason to come to this country in  the first place?
So long as the cure isn't worse than the disease (i.e., a Federal jobs registry or something) then I agree.

Someone else also countered my over stayed visas, so why aren't we going after them, should be seeing busses every where escorting people to airports to be send home to their country of origins?
Agreed and I'm not sure who here you think you're disagreeing with. 

Would you then support improving reactions to overstayed visas in addition to providing for meaningful border security (whether that is a wall or something else)?  Or is this in reality just more strawmanning and whataboutism?
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charby
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« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2019, 06:14:48 PM »

So long as the cure isn't worse than the disease (i.e., a Federal jobs registry or something) then I agree.
Agreed and I'm not sure who here you think you're disagreeing with. 

Would you then support improving reactions to overstayed visas in addition to providing for meaningful border security (whether that is a wall or something else)?  Or is this in reality just more strawmanning and whataboutism?
We already have a federal registry, if you have a ssn and pay taxes, you're on a registry already. We have E-Verfy, etc. Just wish if a SSN pops up in multiple locations, ICE acts swiftly to see what the deal is.


No problem with a change or strengthening of border security. Not sold on a physical barrier, but we have technology to run heat signature drones to see people. We could dedicate military resources to have army or marine boots on the ground in the remote areas, especially on public land. Make it part of their training exercises since we seem to have a endless war in another desert/mountainous area of the world. Even start a new Border Patrol team that consists of folks who "backpack" out in the those areas to spot people that don't belong there and call them in to be intercepted by a larger border patrol team.

US military could fly training sortees over the border looking for heat signatures. See something, coordinates communicated and border patrol meets the unknowns. ETC.

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Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

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charby
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« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2019, 06:19:17 PM »

We should be doing that.

The reason for the wall is that built infrastructure cannot be "scaled back" by the Democrats once they get into power again and decide to encourage law-breaking by foreign nationals once again.

The wall is the single most important piece of this because we cannot trust the opposition to continue enforcement actions. We need a "concrete" commitment to stopping foreign invasions. The Left has lied OVER and OVER and OVER again that "this time we'll REALLY stop the invasions, once we just naturalize another 10 million!" and then somehow the same situation continues.

Even beyond those lies, the reason for the wall is that we don't trust our political enemies to follow the law. We already see how attorneys general will refuse to defend laws they don't agree with and "settle" with litigants that they actually agree with. It is happening in Michigan as we speak, in fact.

So your other enforcement measures are welcome, but insufficient because we know the left will simply stop enforcing them once they get power. At least the wall will still be there and destroying it will exact a significant political price as it will be open defiance of the will of the voters.

I get what you are saying about a physical barrier.

I wish the day a visa expires and the visa holder hasn't checked in, a federal warrant is issued for their arrest and any assets are frozen. Once found and arrested, court that day and deported back to their home country. Assets are unfrozen upon proof of back in home country. Reentry to US is denied for a min of 5 year for violating us law, no exceptions.
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Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

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Ron
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« Reply #60 on: February 07, 2019, 06:28:54 PM »

I get what you are saying about a physical barrier.

I wish the day a visa expires and the visa holder hasn't checked in, a federal warrant is issued for their arrest and any assets are frozen. Once found and arrested, court that day and deported back to their home country. Assets are unfrozen upon proof of back in home country. Reentry to US is denied for a min of 5 year for violating us law, no exceptions.

That is not unreasonable at all.
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RoadKingLarry
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« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2019, 12:46:00 PM »

I get what you are saying about a physical barrier.

I wish the day a visa expires and the visa holder hasn't checked in, a federal warrant is issued for their arrest and any assets are frozen. Once found and arrested, court that day and deported back to their home country. Assets are unfrozen upon proof of back in home country. Reentry to US is denied for a min of 5 year for violating us law, no exceptions.

Sounds good and I'd even throw in a few extreme case  exceptions like having been in a coma preceding the expiration fo a minimum of the normal length of time it takes to get an extension.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams
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