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Author Topic: Check Your Older GPS Device  (Read 939 times)
Ben
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« on: February 13, 2019, 07:42:38 AM »

I don't pay enough attention to this stuff since I retired, but just ran into this tidbit:

https://www.gpsworld.com/gps-week-number-rollover-coming-april-6/
https://www.gps.gov/
https://ics-cert.us-cert.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Memorandum_on_GPS_2019.pdf

Be sure to check your GPS receivers for firmware updates.

I've kept most of my old receivers because I'm a nerd, so I'm sure some of them are not updateable, and I'll be interested in monitoring differences between old and new (updated) receivers.

I'll also be interested in seeing if stuff like Chinese wearables, etc. will update. There's a ton of stuff in use now with integrated GPS, not necessarily made by reputable manufacturers.
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AZRedhawk44
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2019, 08:34:04 AM »

Interesting firmware bug.

In today's modern world of memory density, I consider it kind of irresponsible to limit a week counter to 1023 units.  Especially as your largest unit of time.
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2019, 09:02:00 AM »

I should really pull out my Lowrance Globalmap and check to see if it still works. Finest tech you could get for a C note back in the 90's.
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2019, 09:06:22 AM »

Yeah, my GPS is WAY out of date.

LOTS of new streets since this one (late 1990s early 2000s)...



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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2019, 09:08:31 AM »

Does this apply to dedicated GPS units only?
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Kingcreek
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2019, 09:55:33 AM »

Pretty sure the nav in my jeep uses garmin. I wouldn't know how to update it.
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Ben
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2019, 10:06:01 AM »

Pretty sure the nav in my jeep uses garmin. I wouldn't know how to update it.

Do you mean built in nav? If so, it generally auto updates on its own. Though if it's like Toyota Entune, you can also download firmware to a FAT32 USB stick and do it manually. Jeep should have links on their websites.
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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2019, 11:45:14 AM »

Iĺm pretty sure Garmin isnĺt updating my old 12CX lol
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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2019, 12:41:18 PM »

Do you mean built in nav? If so, it generally auto updates on its own. Though if it's like Toyota Entune, you can also download firmware to a FAT32 USB stick and do it manually. Jeep should have links on their websites.
Yes built in. There's a firmware update required first and then a software update. From what I have been able to find out it appears to be a 2 disk package for $150 for the 730N Uconnect. Some have tried a free USB download but some have bricked in the process.
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« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2019, 12:47:38 PM »

Iĺm pretty sure Garmin isnĺt updating my old 12CX lol

I checked on Garmin's website for map updates for mine which is a model made before they started coming with free lifetime updates and they wanted to charge more for the download than I can go buy a new model with free lifetime updates for. I mean WTF?
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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2019, 12:51:52 PM »

Yeah, I recently received a letter that my GPS device, which I haven't used in almost a decade, is EOL and no longer being supported due to lack of capability(among other things).  The newer ones have an order of magnitude of memory, to start with.

On the other hand, my cellphone and google maps is pretty much guaranteed to be using the most up to date information, and has a bigger database than even the modern dedicated offline GPS units as far as finding stuff goes.  So I haven't been in a rush to replace it.

Quote
I checked on Garmin's website for map updates for mine which is a model made before they started coming with free lifetime updates and they wanted to charge more for the download than I can go buy a new model with free lifetime updates for. I mean WTF?

It's probably part of the licensing deal they have with the map making companies.  IE the device is under the "old deal" where the map makers wanted $$$, before they realized that google and such are killing them, and charging $$$ for the occasional whale wanting updated maps is less profitable than a more open license that allows Garmin et al to publish the most updated maps to all their devices.

It could even be that Garmin(and everybody else) switched map providers at some point to somebody cheaper but with a different map format.  So the old devices are incompatible with the new format(and thus provider), so any updated maps have still be obtained from the expensive bastards, at the old contract rates.
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Ben
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« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2019, 01:08:27 PM »

Yes built in. There's a firmware update required first and then a software update. From what I have been able to find out it appears to be a 2 disk package for $150 for the 730N Uconnect. Some have tried a free USB download but some have bricked in the process.

That sucks. With Entune, there are a few different updates. There's a standard OTA update they do maybe a few times a year for various software on the head unit, and sometimes firmware. Then like for mine, it had a bug that caused it to continually crash and I had to manually download and install the firmware fix for that. But that stuff was all free. The only thing they charge for is for map updates, which I haven't done because they are not cheap. I've had it for almost five years now, so I might spring for a single update now, but no way would I do them every year. As Firethorn said, I can use the Googles if I'm concerned about data age somewhere.

I also had one of the older Nuvis that didn't have lifetime updates. My current one does, and Garmin Connect is pretty good now. I can hook both my watch and Nuvi up to the single account and always get updates on maps, software, firmware, etc. for free.
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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2019, 01:16:56 PM »

Interesting firmware bug.

In today's modern world of memory density, I consider it kind of irresponsible to limit a week counter to 1023 units.  Especially as your largest unit of time.

1023 is a magic number in the computer world, you can have 1024 values(0-1023) in 9 bits unsigned, 10 signed.  However, modern hardware also works in units of 8(a byte), so you'd expect either 8 bits(255 max) or 16(65,535) unless they were doing something funky and it's actually a 16 bit number that is using the extra 6-7 bits for something else.  But with a max value of 63/127, what could it be?

Looking at the news release, it's 10 bit value, so signed if it is rolling over every 1024 units.  Or maybe the 10th bit is a parity bit, used for error detection given that we're talking about a satellite system where errors could be fairly common.
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Ben
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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2019, 01:43:13 PM »

I'm just hoping I can update this, which I acquired only a couple of weeks ago, sans the software. Trimble is notorious for charging an arm and a leg for pretty much everything, and locking down updates without user codes. Which will be a bummer, because I tested it last week when the ephemerals were really good, and with a ~1.8 PDOP, was getting 99% submeter accuracy and at least 80% <50cm accuracy, and that was with no ground station or post processing, just the onboard DGPS.

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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2019, 02:49:35 AM »

Wait so is this actually affecting navigation or just displayed UTC time?
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OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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Ben
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« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2019, 06:16:38 AM »

Wait so is this actually affecting navigation or just displayed UTC time?

From what I read, some older consumer stuff may not know the difference, but professional equipment will. Also it looks to mostly affect pre-2010 equipment.

It looks like precision won't be affected, but accuracy will. That is, if your device will consistently bring you within 10 centimeters of a point, it will continue to bring you within 10 centimeters of a point. The point, however, may be in a slightly different location without the proper time sync. One of the white papers said there could be up to a foot of drift for every nanosecond.
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« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2019, 01:35:58 PM »

I went to garmins website and entered my vin and it found my vehicle and had available updates for free download to a usb stick. I printed off the directions and couldnĺt even complete step #1.
There is a port in the console and one in the dash unit but nothing worked.
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Ben
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« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2019, 01:40:09 PM »

I went to garmins website and entered my vin and it found my vehicle and had available updates for free download to a usb stick. I printed off the directions and couldnĺt even complete step #1.
There is a port in the console and one in the dash unit but nothing worked.


As in it didn't work or didn't recognize the USB stick? For many vehicles, it has to absolutely be FAT32 formatted. exFAT won't work. In fact in my Toyota, it won't even recognize my newer large USB sticks even if I FAT32 format them. I always have to use under I think 32gb sticks for Entune to see them. I'm just glad I have some old sticks laying around for stuff like that.
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« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2019, 02:13:54 PM »

It was formatted but I think it is a 32. Voice command came on but didnĺt display or recognize the option that is supposed to be there for the system upgrade (according to the directions which were supposed to be specific to my 730N) and the usb touch button on the device screen was shaded off when inserted in either port like it wasnĺt detected.
Maybe Iĺll call their customer support line tomorrow hahaha
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« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2019, 02:29:12 PM »

My automotive GPS is a TomTom unit, that came with lifetime free map updates.

I just received a notice from TomTom that they have ended map updates. So much for "lifetime."
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« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2019, 07:07:18 AM »

I just got voluntold into an update program to update the firmware and if needed modules for our GPS telematics systems. Looks like I just got impressed into field service for this. Rolled into work at 730 this morning and five minutes later I was on the road to an emergency class to enroll me into the updating program
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Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!
Ben
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« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2019, 07:09:18 AM »

Thread Nerd Necro:

I was organizing some stuff this morning and came across two old GPS receivers, a Lowrance Global Map 100 (circa 1997) and a Lowrance Hunt (circa 2004), so I powered them up to see what they did.

Interestingly, both are within [DMm] X x.005 of my phone's GPS for both lat and long. The Global Map 100 doesn't show a date, only time*, which was actually correct for my old time zone, and it let me update the time. The newer hunt, which was made after the last rollover, very strangely showed an initial time of 1457 5JUN2057 (it was 0845 local when I checked it). It also refused to let me update time and date. Everytime I input updated figures and saved, it reverted back to the future. 

When I have the time,  I still need to break out my Trimble survey receiver, which was built a year after the last rollover, to see what it does with DGPS.

Anyways, I thought it was interesting that despite the time being off, both the older receivers were still workably accurate. The older Global Map was in a tinfoil hat small Faraday cage I keep with the GPS, weather/SW radio, spare batteries/charger, LED lights, and a few other electronics for the Zombie/EMP/Carrington apocalypse. Smiley


* I think it will show the date as a string if I plug it into a computer, but I have to dig around for some com cables and a converter to see.
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« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2019, 08:53:51 AM »

Maybe contact Lowrance and ask them how to update the time?

It's curious that the older unit can have the time set but the newer one can't. Sounds like another of those "features" that turns out to be a bug.
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Ben
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« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2019, 09:03:40 AM »

Maybe contact Lowrance and ask them how to update the time?

It's curious that the older unit can have the time set but the newer one can't. Sounds like another of those "features" that turns out to be a bug.

Both units were discontinued a long time ago, and are just part of Ben's GPS museum. The only way to update the timestring post rollover would be via updated firmware that doesn't exist.
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« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2019, 07:11:22 PM »

I checked on Garmin's website for map updates for mine which is a model made before they started coming with free lifetime updates and they wanted to charge more for the download than I can go buy a new model with free lifetime updates for. I mean WTF?

Meanwhile, my Tom-Tom came with free lifetime updates. A month or three ago I received a notice from them that there will be no more updates for my model.

They did subsequently issue ONE final update, to address the rollover. Besides that, apparently "lifetime" means "the life of our commitment to honor our promises."
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