Women may soon have to register for the military draft

[Ron]

Excluding women is ruled unconstitutional.

The Selective Service System is no longer just a boys club.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/24/military-draft-judge-rules-male-only-registration-unconstitutional/2968872002/

[MillCreek]

Consistent with what we were discussing a month or so ago with the possible changes from the National Commission on National, Military and Public Service, I suspect the male-only draft system is on the way out.

[HankB]

There probably won't be all that much pushback, since we no longer have an actual draft, we have draft registration.

IMHO instituting an actual draft would be problematic, since having learned the lessons of Vietnam, a lot of young people - more than in the '60s - wouldn't answer the call to fight in an undeclared war our leaders intended to keep us from winning.

[Perd Hapley]

Is registration actually enforced, or is there some incentive to do it?

I did it because I used to have something called a sense of duty, and because Scott Baio told me it was the right thing to do.

[Perd Hapley]

There probably won't be all that much pushback...

...because American men no longer care about our females.

[MillCreek]

Is registration actually enforced, or is there some incentive to do it?

I did it because I used to have something called a sense of duty, and because Scott Baio told me it was the right thing to do.

If you are a male looking for Federal student loan or grant programs, you must be registered with the Selective Service.  Some states also require it as a condition of being admitted to a state college or university.

[RoadKingLarry]

I never bothered to register.
Haven't had any negative repercussions over it.
 

[BlueStarLizzard]

Well, I've got no problem with it. Woman want equal rights, then they should get equal responsibilities (including paying with blood if necessary)

...because American men no longer care about our females.

Now, see, THAT'S the real patronizing sexist bullshit that still exists in America.  

[230RN]

I still have my draft card.   It said to keep it on my person at all times and AFAIK, I was never released from that injunction.  But of course I don't carry it around any more.   Married student: 2S deferment.

I'm actually just keeping it as memorabilia so I can mention it on gun boards.

Moved out to Colorado about that time, pretty much lost contact with old buddies (no internet in the sixties, remember?) so I'm not sure if any of them got drafted.

I was, and still am, of the opinion that females are delicate flowers and should not be out there fighting wars unless it came to "home town ground" defense, in which case they would be bearcats not to be tangled with.  Military training for women?  OK, but no draft.

I still have that outdated notion.

Even though I am pretty much of an egalitarian nature, I am realistic enough to recognize and pay atttention to certain differences between the sexes which are important to species survival.

Terry, 230RN

[dogmush]

I'm reasonably certain that if it came to a war bad enough that we needed to start drafting folks, we could find some combat jobs for women that they would be effective in, as well as bending to the reality of average physical strength between the sexes.  We don't have to just drop them in infantry units and hope for the best.  We could [gasp] utilize draftees in roles* they are suited for.














*Although, historically, draftee's roles tend to be bullet fodder and tank tread grease, and it doesn't take a bunch of strength to do those.

[MillCreek]

Even though I am pretty much of an egalitarian nature, I am realistic enough to recognize and pay atttention to certain differences between the sexes which are important to species survival.

I have read enough dystopian science fiction to endorse your ideas for species survival, but that is only after the population is reduced by 90% due to plague, meteor impact or global nuclear war.  Until then, count me in the equality camp. 

[BlueStarLizzard]

I'm reasonably certain that if it came to a war bad enough that we needed to start drafting folks, we could find some combat jobs for women that they would be effective in, as well as bending to the reality of average physical strength between the sexes.  We don't have to just drop them in infantry units and hope for the best.  We could [gasp] utilize draftees in roles* they are suited for.














*Although, historically, draftee's roles tend to be bullet fodder and tank tread grease, and it doesn't take a bunch of strength to do those.

I volunteer for that last role. 

[Hawkmoon]

I still have my draft card.   It said to keep it on my person at all times and AFAIK, I was never released from that injunction.  But of course I don't carry it around any more.   Married student: 2S deferment.

I'm actually just keeping it as memorabilia so I can mention it on gun boards.

I don't think I have my draft card any longer. When I came home from Vietnam someone suggested that we should keep a copy of our DD-214 in our wallets, so I took mine to a professional reproduction shop (since we didn't have home computers, Adobe Acrobat, and personal laser printers in 1968) and had a wallet-sized copy made. It's still in my wallet 50+ years later.

[RoadKingLarry]

I don't have a problem with women in combat roles as long as it is the right woman in the right role.

I had the very distinct pleasure of spending yesterday afternoon and evening in the company of 3 young Air Force personnel, 2 of them were women.
I was at a BBQ hosted by an old High School friend that retired after 25 years in the army as Blackhawk crew/crew chief and is currently working a contractor gig in Afghanistan. The 2 women are part of the contractor's security detail and fly with them while they try to train Afghanis to fly Blackhawks with out killing themselves.
They were both contemptuous of the different PT standards for male and females and felt that there should be one standard for all.

I also got some interesting insight into the flusterlcuck in the sandbox.

[dogmush]

The new Army pt test, starting next year, is age and gender neutral.

The min score is based on your job, and that's it.

We're all predicting a flusterlcuck.

[sumpnz]

Since there are no restrictions on women's participation in any specific jobs anymore there is no rational reason to maintain a male-only draft register.  Either make young women sign up too, or ditch the draft register entirely.  My preference is for the latter.

[Perd Hapley]

Well, I've got no problem with it. Woman want equal rights, then they should get equal responsibilities (including paying with blood if necessary)

Now, see, THAT'S the real patronizing sexist bullshit that still exists in America.  

There was a time when women were strong enough to bear such savage chauvinism. They made it through somehow.

[230RN]

...




*Although, historically, draftees'roles tend to be bullet fodder and tank tread grease, and it doesn't take a bunch of strength to do those.

I volunteer for that last role.  

Did you mean as tank tread grease or as that pictured armored soldier?


Terry, 230RN

[230RN]

I have read enough dystopian science fiction to endorse your ideas for species survival, but that is only after the population is reduced by 90% due to plague, meteor impact or global nuclear war.  Until then, count me in the equality camp.  

I suppose we could argue about the "percentage," or even whether a catastrophe is needed.  I'm talking the myriad little things that enhance our general (or tribal) survival potential when the "delicate flower" aspect of females is honored.  Sure, they can be Amazons if they want, but they shouldn't be forced into a male mileau such as the military meat grinder.

Can you imagine a boxing match between Alejandra Jiménez and Sonny Liston?  Sure, if she wants to do it...

That's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it.

Terry

REF:
https://youtu.be/e5oMXSkpxA0 (6:31, but just sample it.)

[Ron]

In all of recorded history how frequently do we see women in the same combat roles as men, not out of necessity but due to their superiority in combat?

Not being a military historian I honestly don’t know, I have an idea though.

Personally, I don’t give a flying *expletive deleted*ck about equality in the armed forces one way or the other. My life experiences lead me to lean toward “People Sleep Peacefully in Their Beds at Night Only Because Rough Men Stand Ready to Do Violence on Their Behalf”. There may be exceptions to the rule but the exceptions prove the rule. There does seem to be a pretty good track record of women pilots. I’m sure there are other niches or exceptions.

I want the best esprit de corps and the best individuals doing the roles for which  they are best qualified.

I’m curious dogmush, why do you predict a flusterlcuck?

[BlueStarLizzard]

There was a time when women were strong enough to bear such savage chauvinism. They made it through somehow.

*snort* and you just see us lining up in droves to go back to that, don't you?

My vejaja doesn't make me special anymore than your wiener makes you special, and as far as I'm concerned all of us are responsible for pulling our own weight. Woman, en mass, decided they wanted equality. This is part of that.

I know that the whole idea that woman don't need to be treated like delicate little flowers offends many of you on some deep caveman level of your souls, but you're just going to have to get over it.
Because the harsh truth is that woman *shouldn't* be treated like delicate little flowers. Part of the problem we have RIGHT NOW is our society gave woman equal rights without forcing equal responsibilities and the result is everything everyone on this board agrees is horrendous.

Modern "Feminism"

And no, the answer is not pushing us all back into the kitchens, barefoot and pregnant. That can of worms was busted open long ago, so now the only answer is to finish what was started and making woman get their draft cards is a good start.

[Perd Hapley]

*snort* and you just see us lining up in droves to go back to that, don't you?

More or less. There are plenty of women writing opinion pieces and blog posts, and recording podcasts; that say essentially that.

My vejaja doesn't make me special anymore than your wiener makes you special, and as far as I'm concerned all of us are responsible for pulling our own weight. Woman, en mass, decided they wanted equality. This is part of that.

It's a part of the lunatic equality that treats unlike things as like. Sure, we can recognize that men and women are alike in intelligence, and in many other ways. There's no movement in the post-modern West to bar women from most of the traditionally male endeavors, like surgery or carpentry. The vast majority of us are just fine with a fact-based equality.

But no, women and men are not alike in every way, and the idea that government or society must erase every difference is mad.

I know that the whole idea that woman don't need to be treated like delicate little flowers offends many of you on some deep caveman level of your souls, but you're just going to have to get over it.

No, I don't have to get over it. You can disagree with me, but you're wrong. Sorry about that.

Because the harsh truth is that woman *shouldn't* be treated like delicate little flowers. Part of the problem we have RIGHT NOW is our society gave woman equal rights without forcing equal responsibilities and the result is everything everyone on this board agrees is horrendous.

Modern "Feminism"

And no, the answer is not pushing us all back into the kitchens, barefoot and pregnant. That can of worms was busted open long ago, so now the only answer is to finish what was started and making woman get their draft cards is a good start.

You're saying that the problem with modern feminism is that it needs more modern feminism. The whole problem with modern post-modern feminism is that it tries to erase even very reasonable differences between the sexes, just like you're demanding we do with this military draft business. I'm no expert on the topic, but it appears you have a lot more thinking to do on the subject, as well.  

[dogmush]

I’m curious dogmush, why do you predict a flusterlcuck?

A variety of reasons.  The new test needs a bunch of expensive equipment, will take longer to administer, and needs equipment to train for.

Also, more relevant to this thread, when they normalized the minimum scores for gender and age, the kinda middle aged female run scores all got faster, with more crap in front of it. so there's going to be a lot of mid 30's and up Sr. NCO's and O4-O5's that go from having to do 38 situps, 13 pushups, and 2 miles in ~23 min to A dead lift, Chucking a medicine ball, 10 pushups, a 400M shuttle run a weird pullup and 2 miles in 21 min.

Coupled with the new test having no provisions for permanent medical profiles, there's going to be a fair amount of folks men and women, that all of a sudden can't meet standards.  With all the whining that will involve.

I've already built a pullup bar and bought a medicine ball to start getting ready, but anecdotally there's a bunch of soldiers with the attitude of "If the Army doesn't provide me the stuff they can't make me meet the new standard".  Which, honestly, shows a breathtaking lack of understanding about the military in general for folks that have been in 10-15 years.

[Ron]

Sounds like they have made what should be simple, complicated.

Thanks and good luck.

[Perd Hapley]

*snort* and you just see us lining up in droves to go back to that, don't you?

My vejaja doesn't make me special anymore than your wiener makes you special, and as far as I'm concerned all of us are responsible for pulling our own weight. Woman, en mass, decided they wanted equality. This is part of that.

I know that the whole idea that woman don't need to be treated like delicate little flowers offends many of you on some deep caveman level of your souls, but you're just going to have to get over it.
Because the harsh truth is that woman *shouldn't* be treated like delicate little flowers. Part of the problem we have RIGHT NOW is our society gave woman equal rights without forcing equal responsibilities and the result is everything everyone on this board agrees is horrendous.

Modern "Feminism"

And no, the answer is not pushing us all back into the kitchens, barefoot and pregnant. That can of worms was busted open long ago, so now the only answer is to finish what was started and making woman get their draft cards is a good start.

https://youtu.be/26-VzfBZg1w