Armed Polite Society
March 23, 2019, 04:26:21 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: The humble light bulb and saving energy  (Read 421 times)
MillCreek
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 13,862


APS Risk Manager


« on: March 14, 2019, 06:01:28 AM »

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/03/08/climate/light-bulb-efficiency.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Climate%20and%20Environment

I think about 75% of the bulbs in our home are now LED; I have a few CFL and halogen bulbs that I am using up.
Report to moderator   Logged

_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.
WLJ
friends
Senior Member
***
Posts: 778



« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2019, 06:12:46 AM »

Been changing out every incan and CFL to LEDS for the past 10 years. I think there is maybe two or three bulbs in the house that aren't LED now.
No only are they using a lot less power I have yet to have one go out on me in those 10 years.
Dinning room chandelier went from using 200w to 19w for same light plus it doesn't heat the room up now.

BTW: Hit a paywall in the article link
Report to moderator   Logged
MechAg94
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 20,748


« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2019, 06:20:22 AM »

All that means we don't need govt regulation or subsidies to transition to more efficient bulbs.  Let the market take care of itself.
Report to moderator   Logged

"Envy was once considered to be one of the seven deadly sins before it became one of the most admired virtues under its new name, 'social justice.'"   Thomas Sowell
Brad Johnson
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 13,992


Witty, charming, handsome, and completely insane.


« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2019, 06:25:55 AM »

Rooms that get 95% of the use in my humble abode (master bedroom/bath, living room, kitchen, and hall bath) are all 100% LED. I switched before the incandescent lamps failed for energy savings from both illumination efficiency and heat reduction. Plus I'm a huge technogeek and it was just a cool thing to do. What few incandescent lamps I have left are for things like garage door openers, porch lights, etc.

Brad
Report to moderator   Logged

It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK?Huh? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB
WLJ
friends
Senior Member
***
Posts: 778



« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2019, 06:35:46 AM »

On a side note
Our local power company LG&E (Louisville Gas & Elec) decided to start up a program where they would provide you with CFLs for free, all you had to do was sign up. Basically they would send you a box every month. Darn things were the crappiest POS I have ever seen as far as light bulbs are concerned. You were lucky if one lasted three months and they gave off a horrible green tint light and took ages to warm up.
They kept sending them month after month and finally stopped after a few years. I dumped the whole lot of them into one of those Home Depot bulb recycling bins
Report to moderator   Logged
brimic
friends
Senior Member
***
Posts: 12,606



« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2019, 07:18:08 AM »

I think I replaced my last incandescent about a month ago- a 300watt behemoth in my garage for a much better LED.
Report to moderator   Logged

"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama
Firethorn
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 5,644


Where'd my explosive space modulator go?


« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2019, 07:19:36 AM »

My last incandescent, over the stove, burned put last week.  I also had my first LED die - I think a capacitor went in it.  It was installed in 2014, as I have been sharpying the date onto them.

I'll have to se how the LED lasts over the stove.  If it doesn't,  I'll probably buy a utility bulb to go in there.
Report to moderator   Logged
fistful
Lifestyle Editor: Gorilla Channel
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 52,029


Republican: Woke since 1854


« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2019, 10:28:00 AM »

My last incandescent, over the stove, burned put last week.  I also had my first LED die - I think a capacitor went in it.  It was installed in 2014, as I have been sharpying the date onto them.

I'll have to se how the LED lasts over the stove.  If it doesn't,  I'll probably buy a utility bulb to go in there.

I put an LED in our range hood a while back. I was worried about heat, but it's been fine.
Report to moderator   Logged

He must increase, but I must decrease.
fistful
Lifestyle Editor: Gorilla Channel
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 52,029


Republican: Woke since 1854


« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2019, 11:11:55 AM »

All that means we don't need govt regulation or subsidies to transition to more efficient bulbs.  Let the market take care of itself.

No, government must force you to change, or you'll never do the right thing.
Quote from: Knucklehead Row
But energy efficiency advocates worry that the Trump administration could slow the pace of this lighting revolution.
rolleyes

Quote


Clark Silcox, a lawyer for the National Electrical Manufacturers Association, a trade group that represents major lighting manufacturers like General Electric and Signify (formerly Philips Lighting), said that consumers were already switching to highly efficient LED bulbs on their own, pointing to industry data that shows LEDs outsold all other types of bulbs for the first time in 2017.

ôThe question now is: Does the Department of Energy accelerate that by putting on a ban,ö Mr. Silcox said, even if it would ôdisrupt retail terribly.ö

But Noah Horowitz, a senior scientist at the Natural Resources Defense Council, said ôthereĺs no reason to move backward,ö adding that the lighting industry has had years to prepare for the next phase of efficiency rules.

"No reason to move backward." Wow. So letting people decide for themselves is a retrograde step. What kind of future is this guy looking for?


I'm not sure I buy the notion that 44% of residential bulbs were CFL in 2016. That seems a little high. Then again, we have commercial customers still buying them, for some reason.
Report to moderator   Logged

He must increase, but I must decrease.
230RN
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 12,368


Orange man good.


« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2019, 11:31:53 AM »

I've been switching over to CFLs, and now LEDs on an as-needed basis.

Without doing rigoroous scientifical testing, I've noticed that CFLs do not last as long as hyped, so people tell me I have to get higher quality lamps.  Yeah, well, OK, whatever.

And I have noticed that CFLs do not give adequate brightness if cold, according to the one I have on my back balcony.

OK, so that brings up three questions.

(1) If I replace my refrigerator light with a CFL, will the cold make it too dim?  Most of the time, the door is opened for only a few seconds, probably not time enough for the lamp to warm up.

(2) What about CFLs in industrial cold sites, like restaurant or other industrial freezers?  WIll they have to keep incandescents in those kinds of places?

(3) Haven't tried it, so I don't know, but do LEDs have the same problem (dim light) in cold environments?

Terry, 230RN  
Report to moderator   Logged

Every once in a while I have to remind myself  that hyperlibs / Communists  figure that anything, anything at all,which tends to disrupt the current system is a good thing to them.

Because Communism / socialism thrives on stressed political systems.
MillCreek
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 13,862


APS Risk Manager


« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2019, 11:40:22 AM »

^^^Our new(er) refrigerator and freezer have LED lighting, and they are quite bright in the cold environment. Way better lighting than the old incandescent bulbs.
Report to moderator   Logged

_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.
WLJ
friends
Senior Member
***
Posts: 778



« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2019, 11:48:40 AM »


(1) If I replace my refrigerator light with a CFL, will the cold make it too dim?  Most of the time, the door is opened for only a few seconds, probably not time enough for the lamp to warm up.

(2) What about CFLs in industrial cold sites, like restaurant or other industrial freezers?  WIll they have to keep incandescents in those kinds of places?

(3) Haven't tried it, so I don't know, but do LEDs have the same problem (dim light) in cold environments?

Terry, 230RN  

1) Yes, a CFL would not have time to warm up.
2) Not sure but see #1
3) No, LEDs do just fine in the cold without that annoying warm up period that CFLs require
Report to moderator   Logged
230RN
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 12,368


Orange man good.


« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2019, 11:54:24 AM »

OK, thanks, both.
Report to moderator   Logged

Every once in a while I have to remind myself  that hyperlibs / Communists  figure that anything, anything at all,which tends to disrupt the current system is a good thing to them.

Because Communism / socialism thrives on stressed political systems.
Brad Johnson
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 13,992


Witty, charming, handsome, and completely insane.


« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2019, 01:58:33 PM »

To elaborate on WLJ's post...

CFL lamps have a warm up time just like old-school fluorescent tubes. They are the same general technology, just shrunk and spiraled. Cold cathode = dim lamp (if it lights at all). The luminosity increases as the cathode warms to operating temp.

LED lamps, on the other hand, like the cold. They are, for all intents and purposes, a circuit board that just happens to emit visible light. The colder they are, the better (in general). They also ramp to full brightness instantly because there is no cathode to warm. Current flow = light at full intensity. The inside of a refrigerator or freezer is an LED lamp's best friend. Cold and relatively stable.

Also of note... Fluorescent lamps need high initial voltage to set the arc, resulting in cathode erosion every time they are turned on. This means fluorescent lamps, both standard and CFL, have an inherent number of start cycles before they die. LED lamps suffer no such limitation.

Brad
Report to moderator   Logged

It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK?Huh? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB
lee n. field
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 10,788


tinpot megalomaniac, Paulbot, hardware goon


« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2019, 02:59:17 PM »

I've been switching over to CFLs, and now LEDs on an as-needed basis.

Without doing rigoroous scientifical testing, I've noticed that CFLs do not last as long as hyped, so people tell me I have to get higher quality lamps.  Yeah, well, OK, whatever.

Also true of LED bulbs.

Quote
And I have noticed that CFLs do not give adequate brightness if cold, according to the one I have on my back balcony.
Quote
(3) Haven't tried it, so I don't know, but do LEDs have the same problem (dim light) in cold environments?

I replaced the front and back porch CFLs with LEDs, and they've been absolutely fine, even the many-degrees-below-zero weather we've had this past winter.

Quote
(1) If I replace my refrigerator light with a CFL, will the cold make it too dim?  Most of the time, the door is opened for only a few seconds, probably not time enough for the lamp to warm up.

Dunno, but I wouldn't do that anyway.  Incandescent or LED.


Report to moderator   Logged

In thy presence is fulness of joy.
At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.
Mike Irwin
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 29,070


I Am Inimical


« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2019, 03:30:04 PM »

I have maybe 8 incandescents left in the house, in rooms/fixtures that are never on, a halogen desk lamp, and 3 CFLs.

I also have some tube fluorescents in the basement that I'll eventually change out.

 I also put under cabinet florescence in the kitchen a couple years ago. I wanted to go LED, but the cost was unbelievably prohibitive

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Report to moderator   Logged

Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.
fistful
Lifestyle Editor: Gorilla Channel
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 52,029


Republican: Woke since 1854


« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2019, 03:47:17 PM »

While LEDs do prefer cold weather, they are not invulnerable to heat, especially if completely surrounded by a lens or globe.
Report to moderator   Logged

He must increase, but I must decrease.
RocketMan
Mad Rocket Scientist
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 9,382


Semper Fidelis


« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2019, 04:54:35 PM »

I've got four halogens in a decorative fixture in the main bathroom, and three in an outdoor motion sensing light that is hard to reach using a 24 foot ladder.  Otherwise we have all LED lamps and fixtures.  We've only had one fail so far in the ten years or so since we started using them.
Report to moderator   Logged

ôDonĺt be so open-minded that your brains fall out.ö - G.K. Chesterton

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

"Somebody got up on the wrong side of the apocalypse."
Mike Irwin
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 29,070


I Am Inimical


« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2019, 05:55:26 PM »

I had a Chinese 100 watt equiv. LED fail last year. It started blinking, then made a pop, and it was done.
Report to moderator   Logged

Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.
fistful
Lifestyle Editor: Gorilla Channel
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 52,029


Republican: Woke since 1854


« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2019, 09:03:28 PM »

Cold cathode = dim lamp (if it lights at all).

Unless, of course, it's a cold cathode light.  smiley

https://www.amazon.com/TCP-8TF08CL-8-watt-Cathode-2700-Kelvin/dp/B001V2G3Y8/ref=sr_1_28_sspa?keywords=cold+cathode+light&qid=1552625830&s=gateway&sr=8-28-spons&psc=1


Quote
The inside of a refrigerator or freezer is an LED lamp's best friend. Cold and relatively stable.

I guess that's true for your bog-standard, screw-in LED bulbs, like the one in my fridge. I'm given to understand that the condensation in commercial fridge and freezer cases is no friend to the LED strips they've started mounting in the doors. Not that it can't be done. It just has to be done right.


Report to moderator   Logged

He must increase, but I must decrease.
fistful
Lifestyle Editor: Gorilla Channel
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 52,029


Republican: Woke since 1854


« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2019, 09:16:59 PM »

(1) If I replace my refrigerator light with a CFL, will the cold make it too dim?  Most of the time, the door is opened for only a few seconds, probably not time enough for the lamp to warm up.

(2) What about CFLs in industrial cold sites, like restaurant or other industrial freezers?  WIll they have to keep incandescents in those kinds of places?

Not a CFL, but this is one kind of fluorescent light made for freezers/fridges.
https://www.atlantalightbulbs.com/light-bulbs/fluorescent-lamps-linear/fluorescent-linear-t8-over-48-inch/f70t8-841/

There are also high-output fluorescent tubes for use in outdoor signs, or for under awnings and canopies. They are higher-wattage bulbs, and have to be run by high-output ballasts. I don't recall the exact figures, but the ballasts are rated for something like 20 or 30 degrees below 0.

I haven't run across any high-output CFLs, but I can only assume someone has tried it.
Report to moderator   Logged

He must increase, but I must decrease.
Firethorn
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 5,644


Where'd my explosive space modulator go?


« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2019, 02:29:03 AM »

(1) If I replace my refrigerator light with a CFL, will the cold make it too dim?  Most of the time, the door is opened for only a few seconds, probably not time enough for the lamp to warm up.

(2) What about CFLs in industrial cold sites, like restaurant or other industrial freezers?  WIll they have to keep incandescents in those kinds of places?

(3) Haven't tried it, so I don't know, but do LEDs have the same problem (dim light) in cold environments?

1.  Probably.  Fast on and off is also bad for CFL an FL in general.
2.  Industrial cold sites generally compensate by never turning their FLs off.  Or using non-FL lighting.  There are exemptions in legislation for special duty lighting.  Metal halide is also common.
3.  Nope.  FL works by exciting gases, which works less well in the cold until the gas heats up.  LED works by semiconductor action, which is both tiny and fast.  Warmup time is in the nanoseconds.  The AC-DC converter, if present, takes longer to "warm up", probably a couple cycles of 60hz current.  Like 1/30th of a second.

Summary:  if you need to replace your fridge build, go LED.  It gives zero shits about cycles compared to incandescent, much less CFL.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 12:43:59 PM by Firethorn » Report to moderator   Logged
fistful
Lifestyle Editor: Gorilla Channel
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 52,029


Republican: Woke since 1854


« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2019, 08:12:18 AM »

LED works by semiconductor action, which is both tiny and fast.  Warmup time is in the nanoseconds.  The AC-DC converter, if present, takes longer to "warm up", probably a couple cycles of 60hz current.  Like 1/30th of a second.


Some LEDs do have a noticeable start-up time. At work, we have a display of an LED replacement for HO fluorescent tubes. A lot of customers hit the switch to turn it on, and then give up and shut it off before it's had time to start up. I've also seen a high-wattage LED bulb, the type you'd use to replace a metal halide lamp - it came on right away, but after about a half-second, the second array of LEDs popped on.
Report to moderator   Logged

He must increase, but I must decrease.
Brad Johnson
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 13,992


Witty, charming, handsome, and completely insane.


« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2019, 09:10:30 AM »


Some LEDs do have a noticeable start-up time. At work, we have a display of an LED replacement for HO fluorescent tubes. A lot of customers hit the switch to turn it on, and then give up and shut it off before it's had time to start up. I've also seen a high-wattage LED bulb, the type you'd use to replace a metal halide lamp - it came on right away, but after about a half-second, the second array of LEDs popped on.

The momentary pause while LED driver circuits energize is a different critter than the warm up times on fluorescent lamps. Once past the few tenths of a second it takes for the driver to energize, LED lamps light at full brightness (if the drivers are taking longer to energize, something is wrong or it's a really crappy design). Fluorescent lamps take anywhere from many seconds to several minutes to get up to full brightness.

Brad
Report to moderator   Logged

It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK?Huh? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB
fistful
Lifestyle Editor: Gorilla Channel
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 52,029


Republican: Woke since 1854


« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2019, 10:40:44 AM »

The momentary pause while LED driver circuits energize is a different critter than the warm up times on fluorescent lamps. Once past the few tenths of a second it takes for the driver to energize, LED lamps light at full brightness (if the drivers are taking longer to energize, something is wrong or it's a really crappy design). Fluorescent lamps take anywhere from many seconds to several minutes to get up to full brightness.

Brad


The ones I was talking about require a little more than a few tenths of a second. That sign tube takes, just by a rough guess, a second-and-a-half. Why it's designed that way, I don't know. I don't suppose it matters, really.
Report to moderator   Logged

He must increase, but I must decrease.
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!