Author Topic: Gremlins i.e. Weird issue in my jeep (Read 3256 times)

Kingcreek · « **on:** March 20, 2019, 02:35:17 PM »

This morning, drove my 2014 wrangler unlimited rubicon to work to drop off some stuff before I went to a early meeting across town. Put it in park, left it running, and got out to unload a couple things when suddenly,
The horn blared loudly and continuously. I thought WTF and I grabbed the key and turned off the engine. Tried door lock and unlock and alarm buttons, no change, continuous horn like a stuck horn button. Banged on horn center with no effect. Unlocked building and set some things inside and locked building and got back in jeep.
Started and ran normally with horn blaring. Was going to take it to the dealer instead of going to my meeting and it stopped, just the horn, jeep ran fine.
So I drove it to my meeting, parked and locked it. When I came out 45 minutes later and used the key fob to unlock, sure enough, instant continuous blaring horn. I started it up and drove out of the parking lot and 1/2 block before it quit. I drove home to get other key fob and it went off when I opened the unlocked door. Loud for a minute or 2 then normal in every way.
EXCEPT when I go onscreen to the HDD system information it displays database: ERROR- TAG NOT FOUND
So I drive it to Oreillys because the dealer can't get it in until next Wednesday and I thought maybe, just maybe, the battery is failing and throwing some weird voltages or something. The sales slash tech guy listened to me explain my issue for 5 minutes and didn't think my 5 year old battery could cause that and didn't seem to want to be bothered to test my battery. So I told him I would check it myself tonight. Walked out and opened the door and.... Silence.
Started and ran normal. We will see when I go to leave later. I'm leaning toward a hiccup in the system voltage or something and possibly the battery getting ready to die.
Had an issue with our crossfire a couple years ago where it started locking the doors while parked in the garage then started setting off car alarm at random times. The dealership had it for 4 days and couldn't find the problem even though it did it on their lot a couple times. I took it home and 3 days later the battery was dead. Put a new battery in and never had the problem again.

Boomhauer · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2019, 02:41:43 PM »

no way to troubleshoot this over internet, and in person it requires someone who knows what they are doing. If they utter the words “computer needs replacing” they likely aren’t that person. Also intermittent faults are hell to solve too.

You do have to have good system voltage for the computerized stuff to work correctly. I don’t know why he didn’t test your battery but he should have.

Hawkmoon · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2019, 02:43:03 PM »

I have nothing helpful to offer, just my experience with a Jeep security system. I briefly owned a 1999 Grand Cherokee. I also had a problem with the alarm system randomly triggering the horn. Took it to the dealer, and they couldn't find anything wrong. On the second or third visit, I was standing in an open garage bay door, talking to the service manager and the shop foreman with my GC parked outside. The horn suddenly started blaring, and I said, "See? That's what I'm talking about." They both immediately claimed that I must have pressed the panic button on the key fob -- until I pointed out that the shop foreman was holding the key fob.

They never found the cause. I only had that vehicle for 9 months -- Dimestore-Chrysler bought it back so I wouldn't invoke the lemon law.

grampster · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2019, 02:44:36 PM »

Maybe a fault in the theft alarm system in the key fob? No offense but every one I know who have had Jeeps lately, hate them for all the problems. One friend went so far as to get an attorney and sue. Got a very good settlement.

Kingcreek · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2019, 03:10:17 PM »

I don't think it's alarm related. It's not intermittent and the light don't flash. The horn just blares continuously for a minute or sometimes less. Except when it doesn't. The HDD system thing is weird. When it didn't do it the system info was displayed again.
I'm finding out that the new electronic control systems use the same wires for several functions and the board behind the fuse panel sorts the signals out for different functions.

Ben · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2019, 03:42:35 PM »

Will that side of the electronics throw codes? Might be worth hooking up an ODBII scanner to see if anything pops up.

Kingcreek · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2019, 03:53:40 PM »

It might show up on a diagnostic scan. I'll have the dealer check it Wednesday unless I solve it before then. It's no longer under warranty (except for an extension on the clock spring but that's not likely it.)
I'm going to pull the battery terminals tonight and make sure they are clean and tight and get a HD reboot that way. I'll check battery voltage at the same time.

Kingcreek · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2019, 03:56:07 PM »

http://www.underhoodservice.com/horn-honks-open-door/

griz · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2019, 04:28:38 PM »

In two different vehicles I've had weird problems when the battery in the key fob needed replacing. Admittedly it was things like an alarm sound or not starting, never just a constant horn sounding.

Kingcreek · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2019, 04:34:21 PM »

Happened with both key fobs, once when I used key to unlock, and also once when I just opened an unlocked door.

Hawkmoon · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2019, 05:39:35 PM »

Quote from: Kingcreek on March 20, 2019, 03:56:07 PM

http://www.underhoodservice.com/horn-honks-open-door/

Non Jeep people should not presume to write about Jeep vehicles.

Quote

Fast-forward to 2012, Chrysler Corporation built a Jeep named the Rubicon, presumably to bless it with the famous river’s sense of adventurous ambiance.

Jeep uses the name "Rubicon" because they used to test their new 4x4 vehicles by driving them across the Rubicon Trail, which crosses the mountains between California and Nevada.

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2019, 06:06:32 PM »

Battery is the first possible culprit. Measure KOEO voltage to see what it's really putting out.

Also, Chrysler products are notorious for problems with the relay boards. I think the South Main Auto channel on Youtube actually has a video on it.

Brad

Frank Castle · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2019, 06:48:13 PM »

You can pull the 20amp fuse for the horn, its in the fuse box. This will save you from the neighbors, if goes off in middle of the night.

Kingcreek · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2019, 10:47:23 PM »

I checked the batt. Showing 13.4 V but just opening the hood set the horn off again. Then opening the door to get to the owners manual for the fuse schematics set it off again.
2 - 10 amp fuses for horn Hi/Lo got pulled. I’m leaning more toward circuit relay board.
Pulled the terminals and they are were clean and tight and that should cause a reboot on the HD but I’m not hopeful that it will solve any problems.
Sigh....
Quiet is nice for now but the noise level when the wife/CFO sees what the dealer will charge might be different.

p12 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2019, 11:19:02 PM »

Swap the horn relay for one of the others. See if the issue continues.

That is if it’s equipped with relays that are plugged into the VCIM. I think the horn and a few others are plug in micros relays.

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p12 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 20, 2019, 11:21:28 PM »

VICM. Not VCIM.

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Kingcreek · « **Reply #16 on:** March 21, 2019, 07:53:21 AM »

VICM? Now you have passed my knowledge base.
What I got from the linked article is it’s possible a failure related to the cabin “node” that controls things like interior lights, door latch release, steering mounted volume controls, and horn.
I’m resolved to driving it without horn fuses until turning it over to the Jeep stealership next week. I know a couple of the techs but they are under new nonlocal ownership.

p12 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 21, 2019, 09:45:55 AM »

Quote from: Kingcreek on March 21, 2019, 07:53:21 AM

VICM? Now you have passed my knowledge base.
What I got from the linked article is it’s possible a failure related to the cabin “node” that controls things like interior lights, door latch release, steering mounted volume controls, and horn.
I’m resolved to driving it without horn fuses until turning it over to the Jeep stealership next week. I know a couple of the techs but they are under new nonlocal ownership.

The newer ones since I worked at a Jeep dealership may have changed.

VICM = vehicle interface control module. AKA - the under hood fuse box.

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Brad Johnson · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2019, 10:32:36 AM »

I think it's referred to as TIPM now (Totally Integrated Power Module). Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, on Chrysler/Jeep products runs through the TIPM. They also seem to have an affinity for putting stuff on relay-controlled circuits that don't necessarily need to be. I did a little digging and the horn may be on such a circuit. If so, the relay may be sticking.

No idea how to confirm the circuit config. Jeep forum is probably your best bet. I'm sure someone there will have a wiring diagram posted, or at least have a resource for one.

I mentioned the South Main Auto channel above. Seriously, go watch it, especially his vids on electronics diagnosis. Chrysler/Jeep TIPMs are a big chunk of his business. If nothing else, it's damned informative and takes much of the mystery out of today's complex auto electrical systems.

Brad

Kingcreek · « **Reply #19 on:** March 21, 2019, 11:05:21 AM »

Disconnected the battery terminals cleaned and tightened them and it’s been fine through 4 cycles today. System info is displayed properly each time and the phone connects automatically which wasn’t happening yesterday. The system reboot seems to have cleared it for now. I’ll put the horn fuses back in if the system info remains normal.

p12 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2019, 06:07:09 PM »

Quote from: Brad Johnson on March 21, 2019, 10:32:36 AM

I think it's referred to as TIPM now (Totally Integrated Power Module). Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, on Chrysler/Jeep products runs through the TIPM. They also seem to have an affinity for putting stuff on relay-controlled circuits that don't necessarily need to be. I did a little digging and the horn may be on such a circuit. If so, the relay may be sticking.

No idea how to confirm the circuit config. Jeep forum is probably your best bet. I'm sure someone there will have a wiring diagram posted, or at least have a resource for one.

I mentioned the South Main Auto channel above. Seriously, go watch it, especially his vids on electronics diagnosis. Chrysler/Jeep TIPMs are a big chunk of his business. If nothing else, it's damned informative and takes much of the mystery out of today's complex auto electrical systems.

Brad

TIPM. You are correct sir.

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Kingcreek · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2019, 06:41:48 PM »

Well it worked fine all day several cycles parked and entered and locked and unlocked, the system information displayed normally. Was feeling pretty good about the system reset...
Until....
I put the horn fuses back in. Pushed the plunger switch for the hood and let off and the horn went loud and continuous.
Pulled the fuses again. Started the engine to check the screen and system information says database error again bunch of reference lines that usually display numbers say N/A. Shut down, restarted, same thing. D/C the battery terminals and reconnected again to force a reboot and everything is back normal.
Something in the horn relay is freaking it. Evidently with the fuses out the circuit is not able to freak everything else in that node?
Going to watch the recommended video tomorrow.

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2019, 10:22:54 PM »

Are you in Rust Belt country?

Brad

Kingcreek · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2019, 10:38:11 PM »

Yep. NW Illinois but there is no rust anywhere on this vehicle except where the paint gets rock chipped off the shock tubes. It was kept in a garage by previous owner and it looks like it was sprayed with fluid film or something similar underneath. I treated it myself last fall when I bought it.
It wasn’t a flood recovery or anything like that. I know the previous owner.

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #24 on:** March 22, 2019, 10:47:18 AM »

You pretty handy with a multi-meter and test light?

Brad

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Author Topic: Gremlins i.e. Weird issue in my jeep (Read 3256 times)