Author Topic: Notre Dame is on Fire  (Read 6999 times)

makattak

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I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Hawkmoon

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2019, 02:06:23 PM »
That distresses me to no end.

I guess it proves I'm a terrible person that the first thing to cross my mind when I saw this was that there are a lot of Muslims in Paris.
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BobR

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2019, 02:09:36 PM »
That distresses me to no end.

I guess it proves I'm a terrible person that the first thing to cross my mind when I saw this was that there are a lot of Muslims in Paris.

The first thing I thought of was work related, there is a lot of scaffolding around it. Renovations causing more damage, it isn't a new phenomenon.

The second was I hope Quasimodo was able to get out of the bell tower. ;)

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makattak

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2019, 02:10:20 PM »
https://twitter.com/patrickgaley/status/1117848909877895171/video/1

This is video of the spire falling amidst the flames.

And, Hawkmoon, you're not the only one that thought occurred to, but early reports are pointing to a possible issue with the current restoration/construction that is going on.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

T.O.M.

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2019, 02:26:42 PM »
Damn.  I would have liked to have see that cathedral.
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makattak

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2019, 02:33:13 PM »
Damn.  I would have liked to have see that cathedral.

The fire appears to be getting under control and the front/bell towers seem untouched. (Mostly, I'm sure there is smoke damage).
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

HankB

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2019, 04:20:16 PM »
That distresses me to no end.

I guess it proves I'm a terrible person that the first thing to cross my mind when I saw this was that there are a lot of Muslims in Paris.
My first thought too, though it's quite possible it was a construction accident.

On the other hand, I was watching Fox - Neil Cavuto - and every time his correspondent in Paris tried to mention that there were a lot of anti-Christian incidents in the past few months in France, including the torching of a 17th century church - he cut him off. Finally killing the feed entirely.

Seems there are Some Things That Must Not Be Considered.
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Triphammer

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2019, 04:34:39 PM »
This.
I read there were 10 other churches damaged this month, already.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2019, 04:51:23 PM »
When 900 years old you are, look as good you will not.
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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2019, 05:24:38 PM »
Not endorsing, not condemning, not anything.  I'm just sourcing per Triphammer's post above.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1102958/christian-persecution-france-catholic-church-christianity-religion-edouard-phillipe-isis

(Very ad-heavy.)

Quote
At least 10 incidents of vandalism and desecration of Catholic churches have been reported across the Channel since the beginning of February. French Roman-Catholic newspaper La Croix International reported how the attacks on churches took place across France.

Ron

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2019, 05:26:47 PM »
I had the opportunity to visit Paris when I was a young man.

It was quite lovely, full of Parisians and amazing historical architecture.

Wish my memories were better.

This is a real loss of an architectural as well as symbolic treasure.

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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2019, 07:07:23 PM »
I'm sticking with the accident theory until proven otherwise. Were the other churches on that list undergoing massive renovations? *shrug* As much as you want to blame someone, especially for something like this, sometimes bad *expletive deleted*it just happens for no good reason.

Anyway, this is what I wrote on FB:

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My thoughts on the historic event of the day: As much as the catastrophic fire in Paris marks a great loss, it is also a mere moment in history and (hopefully) a mere moment for the evolution of a historic building.
We forget, in this time when preservation of historic landmarks is considered paramount, that these buildings and monuments underwent massive changes (and often great tragedies) throughout history. A great part of the historic value of these places is not that they have remained static since the time of their building, but that they reflect both the time in which they were created and all the changes that history has marked them with.
Today, Notre Dame has burned. Tomorrow, the ashes will be cleared, what is left will be evaluated, and (hopefully) Notre Dame will rise again, blending what is left of it's past along with the reflection of a new era in it's long history.

While I was watching the news I also spent sometime reading up on the history of the building in question. It's been through a lot, but between what had been removed for construction and what is left, I can see the possibility that in two or three hundred years, this will be yet another significant point in the ongoing history of a great building.
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K Frame

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2019, 07:18:24 PM »
I was there twice in the 1980s. Breathtaking

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Hawkmoon

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2019, 11:06:41 PM »
As of 11:00 p.m. reports are that the fire is under control and that the majority of the [stone] structure will survive. The roof can be rebuilt ... and, in fact, was half rebuilt following WW2, I believe. The spire that collapsed had been completely replaced once before, so one hopes that drawings exist from which it can be rebuilt again.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2019, 11:47:42 PM »
Correction -- the roof was half rebuilt in the 19th century, not after WW2.
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freakazoid

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2019, 01:21:13 AM »
Saw a picture of the insides on Facebook and it looks like it's not that bad. Hopefully overall there isn't much damage and historical items not lost.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2019, 01:36:42 AM »
Saw a picture of the insides on Facebook and it looks like it's not that bad. Hopefully overall there isn't much damage and historical items not lost.

The good news is that the "ceiling" that we see from the interior is a stone vault supported by stone arches. The roof that burned was just the roof that kept the rain out. It appears that the stone vault collapsed at the transept, which is where the spire collapsed so that's not a big surprise.

I read one report that said all three of those huge, beautiful rose stained glass windows were destroyed by the heat. They will be difficult to replace and impossible to replicate accurately.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2019, 01:44:12 AM »
I'm sticking with the accident theory until proven otherwise. Were the other churches on that list undergoing massive renovations? *shrug* As much as you want to blame someone, especially for something like this, sometimes bad *expletive deleted*it just happens for no good reason.

There's no reason people shouldn't discuss the possibility of arson, or even terroristic arson. It doesn't mean they need someone to blame. It just means that sometimes bad stuff happens because Islam. Or because Yellow Vests. Or because Trump. Or whatever.
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Scout26

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2019, 03:00:40 AM »
Like Mike, I got to see it in the late 1980's. Just a stunning structure.  Like Ron, I wish my memory (of the tour) were better.
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T.O.M.

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2019, 08:27:04 AM »
Saw an acquaintance on FB posted that this is a tragic and historic loss, and went on to say that with all of the suffering in the world, the building should be scraped and not rebuilt, as the money should be taken from the church by our government and used to help people.  Didn't realize that we here in US had the ability to seize money from a church on the other side of the world and use it to, I don't know, pay for daycare for all of the families sneaking into the country.  I guess communism has no boundaries.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2019, 08:28:42 AM »
Saw an acquaintance on FB posted that this is a tragic and historic loss, and went on to say that with all of the suffering in the world, the building should be scraped and not rebuilt, as the money should be taken from the church by our government and used to help people.  Didn't realize that we here in US had the ability to seize money from a church on the other side of the world and use it to, I don't know, pay for daycare for all of the families sneaking into the country.  I guess communism has no boundaries.

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WLJ

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2019, 08:51:30 AM »
I read one report that said all three of those huge, beautiful rose stained glass windows were destroyed by the heat. They will be difficult to replace and impossible to replicate accurately.

According to this they survived

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6926807/Devastating-aftermath-Notre-Dame-inferno-leaves-world-mourning.html
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Ron

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2019, 11:03:49 AM »
There's no reason people shouldn't discuss the possibility of arson, or even terroristic arson. It doesn't mean they need someone to blame. It just means that sometimes bad stuff happens because Islam. Or because Yellow Vests. Or because Trump. Or whatever.

Regardless of the cause, the fire is being seen as many as symbolic of the decline of the west, by both defenders and enemies of the west.

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2019, 12:12:47 PM »
Regardless of the cause, the fire is being seen as many as symbolic of the decline of the west, by both defenders and enemies of the west.


What are they going to say when it has been completely restored and there's a massive celebration to commemorate the re-opening?
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MillCreek

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2019, 12:35:12 PM »
What are they going to say when it has been completely restored and there's a massive celebration to commemorate the re-opening?

That all that money has been wasted, when it could have been spent on the homeless.
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