Author Topic: Notre Dame is on Fire  (Read 7007 times)

Hawkmoon

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #100 on: April 22, 2019, 08:49:39 AM »

In something like a cathedral, if steel were to replace wood in the roof structure the whole building would become virtually fireproof.


In building code speak, it would be "noncombustible," not "fireproof." In order for a building to be qualified as "fireproof" in the building codes, not only must the structure be noncombustible, it must also be protected against heat degradation for a period of 'X' hours ('X' depending on which category of "fireproof" is called for -- there are two). Since, as has been commented, steel loses strength when it gets hot, this means that in a "fireproof" building any steel structure has to be either encased in concrete or covered with a fiarly thick layer of some kind of spray-on or towel-on fireproofing material.
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zxcvbob

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #101 on: April 22, 2019, 08:54:04 AM »

In something like a cathedral, if steel were to replace wood in the roof structure the whole building would become virtually fireproof.

Literally, the only thing that fueled the Notre Dame fire was the wooden roof and spire structure and perhaps some ancillary stuff that the contractors brought in for the work. During normal periods, there would be literally nothing to burn. The roof structure isn't like a house -- there's no furnishings, clothing, etc., in there to burn.

If heavy wooden beams were the only combustibles, how did they ignite?  Ever try to light a log on fire?
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #102 on: April 22, 2019, 09:39:41 AM »
It would depend some on the condition of the beams.
A beam, or section of one that had suffered damage from rot and then dried out could be pretty easy to ignite.
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WLJ

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #103 on: April 22, 2019, 09:54:21 AM »
If heavy wooden beams were the only combustibles, how did they ignite?  Ever try to light a log on fire?

We still don't know, if we will ever, exactly how it started and then spread.
Could have been a pile of rubbish that got started first which then got the wood going.
How dry was the wood? Remember, that stuff is/was 800 years old.
What kind of 800 year old finish/protectant if any was on the wood? Some of that stuff is highly flammable
Where is Malaysia Airlines Flight 370?
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Fly320s

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #104 on: April 22, 2019, 09:59:12 AM »
If heavy wooden beams were the only combustibles, how did they ignite?  Ever try to light a log on fire?

They weren't the only combustibles.  It isn't just rocks and wood in the church; there are drapes, tablecloths, pews, books, chairs, decorations, worker's supplies, tools, etc.

If the church was just a bunch of neatly-designed rocks, it wouldn't be very comfortable or comforting.
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Ron

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #105 on: April 22, 2019, 10:07:13 AM »
I find it hard to believe in this day and age that a building like Notre Dame isn’t surveilled from multiple angles.

Look at the Jussie surveillance. They had him from point a to point b almost completely.

Western big cities have become panopticons.

We’re on a need to know basis and the powers that be have decided we don’t need to know.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #106 on: April 22, 2019, 10:12:00 AM »
We still don't know, if we will ever, exactly how it started and then spread.
Could have been a pile of rubbish that got started first which then got the wood going.
How dry was the wood? Remember, that stuff is/was 800 years old.
What kind of 800 year old finish/protectant if any was on the wood? Some of that stuff is highly flammable
Where is Malaysia Airlines Flight 370?
Questions, questions, questions.

Flight 370 entered a black hole, as reported by CNN. What Don Lemon didn't know is that it traveled through time, collided with Notre Dame (causing the fire), and then traveled back in time, and colluded with the Russians to elect Donald Trump.
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TommyGunn

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #107 on: April 22, 2019, 02:32:34 PM »
We still don't know, if we will ever, exactly how it started and then spread.
Could have been a pile of rubbish that got started first which then got the wood going.
How dry was the wood? Remember, that stuff is/was 800 years old.
What kind of 800 year old finish/protectant if any was on the wood? Some of that stuff is highly flammable
Where is Malaysia Airlines Flight 370?
Questions, questions, questions.

I think much of the wood roof was rebuilt over the years.   One report said the spire was from 1786, another report said 1830. 
There was damage from radicals in the later 18th century and from WW2.
So not all of it was 800 years old.   But, otoh,  I've seen contrary reports.... re: age of the spire ....
Ain't the mass media wunnerful?   [tinfoil]
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #108 on: April 22, 2019, 03:34:16 PM »
I think much of the wood roof was rebuilt over the years.   One report said the spire was from 1786, another report said 1830. 
There was damage from radicals in the later 18th century and from WW2.
So not all of it was 800 years old.   But, otoh,  I've seen contrary reports.... re: age of the spire ....
Ain't the mass media wunnerful?   [tinfoil]

All reports are that the roof (structure and covering) were original. The spire was replaced in the mid-19th century, due to deterioration of the original. The work that was underway this year was to refurbish the spire, again due to deterioration.
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TommyGunn

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #109 on: April 22, 2019, 07:42:10 PM »
 ???  *Sigh*   As I said .... contradictory news reports ..... plus some unrelated (Internet [so it must be true ]) articles .....

What to believe anymore?    [tinfoil]
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

K Frame

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #110 on: April 23, 2019, 07:52:28 AM »
If heavy wooden beams were the only combustibles, how did they ignite?  Ever try to light a log on fire?

 :facepalm:

You do realize that they were actively doing renovations in the roof are, right? And that the roof area was likely full of multiple types of combustible materials that normally wouldn't be there, to include potential ignition sources?
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K Frame

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #111 on: April 23, 2019, 07:54:43 AM »
They weren't the only combustibles.  It isn't just rocks and wood in the church; there are drapes, tablecloths, pews, books, chairs, decorations, worker's supplies, tools, etc.

If the church was just a bunch of neatly-designed rocks, it wouldn't be very comfortable or comforting.

Except that where the fire started, in the roof area between the interior stone vaulting and the exterior roof sheathing, there aren't drapes, tablecloths, pews, books chairs, or decorations.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #112 on: April 23, 2019, 07:56:31 AM »
Except that where the fire started, in the roof area between the interior stone vaulting and the exterior roof sheathing, there aren't drapes, tablecloths, pews, books chairs, or decorations.

There are, actually. It's the secret chapel where Opus Dei plots to take over the world.
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K Frame

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #113 on: April 23, 2019, 07:57:31 AM »
I think much of the wood roof was rebuilt over the years.   One report said the spire was from 1786, another report said 1830. 
There was damage from radicals in the later 18th century and from WW2.
So not all of it was 800 years old.   But, otoh,  I've seen contrary reports.... re: age of the spire ....
Ain't the mass media wunnerful?   [tinfoil]


Some of the roof beams were original, while others had been replaced over the subsequent 700 or so years.

The spire that burned was a replacement for an older spire that had badly deteriorated. The new spire was part of the major renovation that took place in the 1840s. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/04/16/story-behind-towering-notre-dame-spire-year-old-architect-commissioned-build-it/?utm_term=.246c6fa91017

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Ron

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #114 on: April 24, 2019, 07:32:27 AM »
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #115 on: April 24, 2019, 12:32:12 PM »
https://voiceofeurope.com/2019/04/macron-says-notre-dame-should-be-rebuilt-consistent-with-the-modern-diverse-france-and-architects-suggest-a-glass-roof-steel-spire-and-minaret/

Honestly, I was only joking about replacing the spire with a minaret.

Yet, in clown world, it’s actually suggested.

You were joking, but I wasn't with my comments about Macron. I had already seen the suggestions for things like a glass roof. Seriously, what's the point of a glass roof on a Gothic cathedral? Would they then remove all the stone vaulted ceilings in the nave, transepts and apse so the glass roof would be visible from inside? I wonder what that would do to the structural balance.

Too many architects today are so interested in making a "statement" that they lose all perspective regarding what's right and what's logical and sensible.
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Scout26

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #116 on: April 24, 2019, 01:14:59 PM »
I find it hard to believe in this day and age that a building like Notre Dame isn’t surveilled from multiple angles.

Look at the Jussie surveillance. They had him from point a to point b almost completely.

Western big cities have become panopticons.

We’re on a need to know basis and the powers that be have decided we don’t need to know.


Can we remove the tinfoil, or at least loosen it up a bit ??  You have work being done IN an 800+ year old structure, 30 meters off the ground.  not many surveillance cameras pointing skyward, nor inside he roof of Notre Dame.  They are erecting the scaffolding, running generator electric into a tightly confined space, so figure a bunch of dust.  You probably have lots of electrical connections, welders, cutsaws, and acetylene torches.  There is more then just the oak support timbers,, the spire is made of 200 year old wood, the actual roof is wood (planking) supporting lead tiles.  

There were all kinds of combustibles, and all kinds of ignition sources.  Keep in mind that worksite electrical connections gets bashed around a bit.  So an electrical connection shorting out or stay spark from another source and you have an accidental fire.  Probability 99.9%

Achmed either working at or breaking into a busy worksite and accessing the inside of the spire/roof area where the fire started .1%
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 03:17:59 PM by Amy Schumer »
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #117 on: April 24, 2019, 01:34:25 PM »
There is also the possibility that Achmed was employed as a worker on the site and the terroristic sabotage was an inside job.
Look at what happened on the USS  Miami a few years ago.
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Ron

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #118 on: April 24, 2019, 01:38:24 PM »
This right wing mouthpiece known for it’s shiny tinfoil cap reports on the wave of Roman Catholic Churches in France being vandalized this year.

https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-france-sees-altars-desecrated-christ-statue-1370800
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

WLJ

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #119 on: April 26, 2019, 05:10:07 PM »
Now we know the problem, there's a huuuuuuge shortage of mosques in France and something about LGBT rights   :facepalm:

The World Mourned When Notre Dame Burned. But Some Saw It As An Opportunity To Make France Catholic Again.
With the help of billionaires, President Emmanuel Macron raised $1 billion for the reconstruction of Notre Dame, but what about France’s huge shortage of mosques?
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/lesterfeder/notre-dame-fire-france-catholic-church-islam-mosques

https://twitter.com/HashtagGriswold/status/1121819778648297478?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #120 on: April 26, 2019, 06:13:52 PM »
You thought the comments about a glass roof were a joke? Guess again:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6963757/Notre-Dame-reborn-GREENHOUSE-French-architects-propose-replacing-damaged-roof-glass.html

Quote
French architects have revealed a stunning set of plans to redesign the Notre Dame Cathedral's fire-ravaged roof as a greenhouse.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Notre Dame is on Fire
« Reply #121 on: April 28, 2019, 10:37:13 PM »
You thought the comments about a glass roof were a joke? Guess again:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6963757/Notre-Dame-reborn-GREENHOUSE-French-architects-propose-replacing-damaged-roof-glass.html


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