Union Pacific #4014 restoration nearly complete

[Angel Eyes]

The crew has her steamed up at the engine house, running some tests:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWpODg11xkI


Looking forward to seeing this beast run again.

[K Frame]

Jeez... that thing burns No. 5 fuel oil...

It requires preheating to about 200 degrees F to atomize properly, from what I'm reading. I wonder how that was accomplished when the locomotive was running... steam lines in the tender?

[charby]

Jeez... that thing burns No. 5 fuel oil...

It requires preheating to about 200 degrees F to atomize properly, from what I'm reading. I wonder how that was accomplished when the locomotive was running... steam lines in the tender?

Originally coal, I wonder if they warm the boiler up with diesel fuel, once hot enough use steam to warm the #5 oil up, or do a blend of #5 and diesel for warm up?

[230RN]

First thing that occurs to me is that they run it "improperly" until it self-warms enough to atomize "properly."

Sort of like firing up one of those old gasoline blowtorches, where you burn some gas under the coils until the gas in the coils vaporizes.  I'm pretty sure I gave the one I had from my Pop to one of my sons.

I loves me them old engines.  For similar interest, look up Engine 844.  My second degree fame claim is they parked it next to my building in downtown Denver (right on the old Union Station side tracks) for a week or so and I talked to the engineers and others.  You may touch the hem of my robe.  Only $7.50 per touch.

Apparently, the PR aspects are worth it, since they're now refurbishing this one.  (Of course, 844 had a souvenir shop behind the tender, but I can't imagine the income from that was what made keeping it running worthwhile.)

Terry

[K Frame]

"First thing that occurs to me is that they run it "improperly" until it self-warms enough to atomize "properly.""

From what I understand about the heavier grades of fuel oil doing so will damage fuel pumps, lines, and injector nozzles.

[Hawkmoon]

I've read that #5 is sometimes mixed with #2 for cold weather starts. Or, being in a rail yard where they may have steam generators for various purposes, maybe the pipe external steam to the tender/tanker and preheat the fuel before starting.

[K Frame]

That's what I'm thinking, that they have preheaters.

But, thinking about it even more, railroad locomotives started to be equipped with dynamos (and later generators) in the late 1800s/early 1900s as they started moving to electric lighting.

Some of the first electric locomotive lights were carbon arc lamps, and you need a lot of juice to get those things cooked. Later incandescent lights became the standard, probably around WW I.

So, I'm thinking that the preheaters weren't steam, they were electric.

[charby]

That's what I'm thinking, that they have preheaters.

But, thinking about it even more, railroad locomotives started to be equipped with dynamos (and later generators) in the late 1800s/early 1900s as they started moving to electric lighting.

Some of the first electric locomotive lights were carbon arc lamps, and you need a lot of juice to get those things cooked. Later incandescent lights became the standard, probably around WW I.

So, I'm thinking that the preheaters weren't steam, they were electric.

Here is some more info:

https://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php?topic=20217.0;wap2

[K Frame]

Interesting stuff, but his preheat temperatures are way off.

Bunker C oil is like tar at 70 degrees F and nearly solid at 50 degrees F. It won't flow easily until it's well over 150 degrees F.

[Angel Eyes]

Test run:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjoMBKWW0ag

[dogmush]

That's very cool.

I can't help nut notice however, that diesel-electric acting as caboose was up and running.  Recovery vehicle perhaps?

[charby]

That's very cool.

I can't help nut notice however, that diesel-electric acting as caboose was up and running.  Recovery vehicle perhaps?

Braking? Or pusher so they can break in the rebuilt steam cylinders in under a lighter load. Looks like they are going up a grade, maybe just to push up the hills?

[Angel Eyes]

The diesel on the back end is most likely insurance in case #4014 breaks down.

[Hawkmoon]

Interesting stuff, but his preheat temperatures are way off.

Bunker C oil is like tar at 70 degrees F and nearly solid at 50 degrees F. It won't flow easily until it's well over 150 degrees F.

70 degrees Celsius is 158 degrees Fahrenheit ...

[K Frame]

He was talking celsius?

Still too low.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Hawkmoon]

He was talking celsius?

Still too low.

Maybe not if it was cut with some #2 for start-up. They might even start it up on straight diesel. #5 gets used for industrial stuff because it's cheaper and because it has a higher specific heat, but using a bit of #2 just to get things firing wouldn't affect overall economy of operation or power output.

[K Frame]

Even if you started it with diesel you'd need someway of bringing 28 tons of fuel oil in the tender up to a workable temperature before it could be used.

[RoadKingLarry]

First thing that occurs to me is that they run it "improperly" until it self-warms enough to atomize "properly."

Sort of like firing up one of those old gasoline blowtorches, where you burn some gas under the coils until the gas in the coils vaporizes.  I'm pretty sure I gave the one I had from my Pop to one of my sons.

I loves me them old engines. For similar interest, look up Engine 844.  My second degree fame claim is they parked it next to my building in downtown Denver (right on the old Union Station side tracks) for a week or so and I talked to the engineers and others.  You may touch the hem of my robe.  Only $7.50 per touch.

Apparently, the PR aspects are worth it, since they're now refurbishing this one.  (Of course, 844 had a souvenir shop behind the tender, but I can't imagine the income from that was what made keeping it running worthwhile.)

Terry

They brought 844 through here a couple of years ago. I managed to get a few decent pics.

[dogmush]

I got curious and spent a little bit of time poking about on the internet trying to find the answer.

It appears as though under normal operation, an Oil Fired Locomotive doesn't start itself.  It hooks up to shop steam to preheat the oil and run the atomizer until it works up it's own head.

There are a couple of mentions of UP having boiler cars in the train to assist with cold starts if the locomotive went out, but they seem to talk about those mostly being for low pressure steam to heat the passenger cars and only start the locomotive in an emergency.  

I found one discussion thread where folks seem to be talking like they had driven some, and one guy mentions that his locomotive had a "t" in the fuel line and an overhead diesel tanks so they could run the burner on diesel and air from a compressor until they got 20-25 lbs of steam to preheat the Bunker oil, but that seems to be an add on after the big steam shops all closed down, and folks were restoring the engines.

Thread here: https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,3483317

It's pretty neat discussion.  Another guy mentions a Lumber company using Propane to light boilers out in the woods.

[Hawkmoon]

Zo, ve haf vays to machen der engine to schtart.

And starting may not happen as often as one might think. Of course I have no way of knowing how often a showpiece like Big Boy will need to be started, but I wonder if in regular service steam locomotives were treated like diesels are today. I spent seven years on a construction project in a major rail yard. Locomotives that were in cold storage or in the shop for repair were cold, but the ones being used didn't ever shut down. They parked them overnight, over weekends, and over long holiday weekends and just left them idling. Even for modern diesels, it's just too much work to start them up -- they prefer to just let 'em run.

[HeroHog]

Here I was thinkin the Diesel-Electric locomotive was to "bump start" the other one...

[230RN]

Here I was thinkin the Diesel-Electric locomotive was to "bump start" the other one...

Ha-ha... no, they're self-starting.

No "starting capacitor" or giant hand crank or pony engines needed.  Put steam into two (or four) double-acting cylinders, and off it goes.

As noted, there were probably other reasons for the diesel engine.  I'm thinking maybe for braking power as well.*  Or maybe for modern communications with dispatch and the rest of the RR's electronic systems.  Could also be for recording performance values.

Terry

* ETA I just noticed Charby had mentioned braking already.

[HeroHog]

Ha-ha... no, they're self-starting.

No "starting capacitor" or giant hand crank or pony engines needed.  Put steam into two (or four) double-acting cylinders, and off it goes.

As noted, there were probably other reasons for the diesel engine.  I'm thinking maybe for braking power as well.*  Or maybe for modern communications with dispatch and the rest of the RR's electronic systems.  Could also be for recording performance values.

Terry

* ETA I just noticed Charby had mentioned braking already.

Ya DO know I already knew that and was just being my sarcastic self, right? 

[230RN]

I knew dat.

That's why I put the "Ha-ha" in.

The rest of it was in case other people didn't know that.

A very, very, very rare sight:

https://youtu.be/feSCpDimsQI (1:30)

[K Frame]

Diesel electric locomotives are started in one of two ways:

1. Most commonly, an electric starter motor run off batteries or a pony cart.

2. Air power replaces the battery to turn the starter motor or, in some cases, air is piped into the cylinders to turn the engine. Once it was up to speed, fuel was introduced and the engine fired. This way is apparently obsolete.

Good information here: http://www.railway-technical.com/trains/rolling-stock-index-l/diesel-locomotives/