Author Topic: Visual survey of race at work?  (Read 1125 times)

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Visual survey of race at work?
« on: May 21, 2019, 01:49:11 PM »
I got this email from our division HR manager today:
Quote
Dear Employee,

 

As part of a government record keeping and reporting requirements, the government requires us to report our employee race/ethnicity in one of 7 race categories. In other to comply with these laws, we invite you to voluntarily self-identify your race/ethnicity.

 

Submission of this information is voluntary and refusal to provide it will not subject you to any adverse treatment. The information will be kept confidential, as provided by law, and may only be used in accordance with the provisions of applicable laws, executive orders, and regulations, including those that require the information to be summarized and reported to the federal government for civil rights enforcement. When reported, the data will not identify any specific individual.

 

If you elect to voluntarily self-identify, Pls log into your workday account and update your personal information by May 25th.

Sweet!, I thought... I was trying to decide between Khajiit for stealth abilities or High Elf for magic.... I was underwhelmed by the choices given, so I decided not to play.

Then I noticed this little nugget further down the email:
“***If you choose not to self-identify your race/ethnicity at this time, the federal government requires the company to determine this information by visual survey or other available information***.”


How progressive! We will now help with equal opportunity enforcement by judging people by their outward appearances. Perhaps they could create a publication on identifying different races and ethnicities, so that people can be properly categorized...
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,622
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2019, 03:16:58 PM »
Sounds like profiling. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,198
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2019, 04:12:14 PM »
Quote
As part of a government record keeping and reporting requirements, the government requires us to report our employee race/ethnicity in one of 7 race categories.

??? I thought "race" and "ethnicity" were two different things. There was no question that my late wife was white (which is a color, not a race, but -- whatever). But she was from South America. Various .gov entities, both state and federal, kept wanting to classify her as "Hispanic." She objected. She spoke Spanish as her native language, but she had never been to Spain, and nobody in her family had ever been to Spain. So she didn't consider herself to be "Hispanic."

The dictionary defines "ethnicity" as:

Quote from: Merriam-Webster on-line
ethnicity noun
eth·​nic·​i·​ty | \ eth-ˈni-sə-tē
\
plural ethnicities
Definition of ethnicity

1 : ethnic quality or affiliation aspects of ethnicity
2 : a particular ethnic affiliation or group students of diverse ethnicities

Well, that's helpful -- not. Talk about using a word to define itself. Moving right along, then, we find:

Quote
ethnic adjective
eth·​nic | \ ˈeth-nik
\
Definition of ethnic

 (Entry 1 of 2)
1a : of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background ethnic minorities ethnic enclaves
b : being a member of a specified ethnic group an ethnic German
c : of, relating to, or characteristic of a minority ethnic group ethnic neighborhoods ethnic foods
2 : of or relating to the Gentiles or to nations not converted to Christianity : heathen, pagan … ancient ethnic revels of a faith long since forsaken …— Henry Wadsworth Longfellow


ethnic noun

Definition of ethnic (Entry 2 of 2)
chiefly US
: a member of an ethnic group especially : a member of a minority group who retains the customs, language, or social views of the group

So ethnicity isn't race. Ethnicity is a function of the customs, language, and (maybe) the social views of a group of people. So, for example, someone who is black and who was born and raised in Germany would be "black" by race, but Germanic by ethnicity. Which says to me that there should be a LOT more than 7 choices if they want to classify by ethnicity.

When did our .gov stop using "Caucasian" as a race and start using "white"? If I'm white and my ancestors have come from the United States since before there was a United States, why am I not "Native American"? (Elizabeth Warren's issues with Native American-ness notwithstanding.) On the other hand, for ethnicity I sometimes choose "Other." I think if ethnicity reflects customs, language, and social customs that WASP should be an ethnic classification.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2019, 04:56:41 PM »
And, why would a white person born and raised in South Africa and now a nationalized US citizen not be African-American?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

MillCreek

  • Skippy The Wonder Dog
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,964
  • APS Risk Manager
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2019, 05:12:50 PM »
In certain settings, we are now required to ask the patient about their race, and if they refuse to specify, we are supposed to eyeball the patient and guess.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

BobR

  • Just a pup compared to a few old dogs here!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,246
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2019, 05:20:17 PM »
I can guarantee the first time someone asks me my race verbally I am going to tell them I prefer the middle distances but can do sprints if needed. I just want to see the look on their face.  :)

bob

griz

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,030
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2019, 06:17:28 PM »
^^^  Reminds me of a blogger who told of a time when he was sitting across the desk from a lady who was questioning him to fill out a very boring form.  It was so routine that she hadn't really looked at him.  She would say "name", "address", "employer", etc, and she would dutifully type his answers.  She said "position" and he replied "missionary".  That got her attention and she looked up to blast such a smart a$$ answer, only to see him tugging at his white missionary collar.  He knew it would wake her up, but he couldn't resist.
Sent from a stone age computer via an ordinary keyboard.

grampster

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,435
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2019, 07:03:18 PM »
I can guarantee the first time someone asks me my race verbally I am going to tell them I prefer the middle distances but can do sprints if needed. I just want to see the look on their face.  :)

bob

For The Win!!!!
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

lee n. field

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,534
  • tinpot megalomaniac, Paulbot, hardware goon
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2019, 07:35:27 PM »
In certain settings, we are now required to ask the patient about their race, and if they refuse to specify, we are supposed to eyeball the patient and guess.

There's a certain sort of "sort of light brown" person, that could be from any number of places.   One of the deputies for the sheriff's dept I do support for, is Am. Indian (by descent).   Looks like an stereotypical Arab.   Berbers (been in Africa 10000 years) look the same, as do other circum-Mediterranians.   And also the lady at church who's native Hawaiian.

Eyeball them and guess, you'll probably be wrong.
In thy presence is fulness of joy.
At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.

lee n. field

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,534
  • tinpot megalomaniac, Paulbot, hardware goon
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2019, 08:13:50 PM »
??? I thought "race" and "ethnicity" were two different things. There was no question that my late wife was white (which is a color, not a race, but -- whatever). But she was from South America. Various .gov entities, both state and federal, kept wanting to classify her as "Hispanic." She objected. She spoke Spanish as her native language, but she had never been to Spain, and nobody in her family had ever been to Spain. So she didn't consider herself to be "Hispanic."

Two of my nieces are half Japanese.  Japan is an island in the Pacific.  But, they can't check "Pacific islander" in the ethnic stereotyping check boxes.
In thy presence is fulness of joy.
At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.

French G.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,184
  • ohhh sparkles!
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2019, 09:03:35 PM »
Since it is optional I have been many things on a 4473.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

HeroHog

  • Technical Site Pig
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,030
  • It can ALWAYS get worse!
    • FaceButt Profile
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2019, 10:03:26 PM »
Seeing as my family has been here in the US since it was a Colony, can I be Native American too? I believe I am about 1/32 - 1/64 by blood already (Choctaw and Cherokee).
I might not last very long or be very effective but I'll be a real pain in the ass for a minute!
MOLON LABE!

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,198
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2019, 11:03:04 PM »
In certain settings, we are now required to ask the patient about their race, and if they refuse to specify, we are supposed to eyeball the patient and guess.

And if you saw Megan Markle sitting in your waiting room, what race would you assign her to (or to her)?
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,198
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2019, 11:05:35 PM »
Two of my nieces are half Japanese.  Japan is an island in the Pacific.  But, they can't check "Pacific islander" in the ethnic stereotyping check boxes.


Are you saying they're not allowed to self-identify as what they actually are?

CALL OUT THE SJW BRIGADES! I think if anatomical and chromosomal males can "self-identify" as women, and vice versa, someone whose ancestry is from an island in the Pacific should most certainly be allowed to self-identify as Pacific Islander.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

zxcvbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,208
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2019, 11:48:38 PM »
Two of my nieces are half Japanese.  Japan is an island in the Pacific.  But, they can't check "Pacific islander" in the ethnic stereotyping check boxes.


Why not?  What's to keep them from checking any box they want?

In one of the past 2 censuses (don't remember which one) they asked about ethnicity and I wrote in "American"
"It's good, though..."

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2019, 11:49:39 PM »
Are there more or less races than sexes now?
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

bedlamite

  • Hold my beer and watch this!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,769
  • Ack! PLBTTPHBT!
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2019, 11:54:04 PM »
My race? Human.
A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.
Is defenestration possible through the overton window?

Ron

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,881
  • Like a tree planted by the rivers of water
    • What I believe ...
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2019, 11:58:24 PM »
I thought there were three races, four if you separate pygmies?

There are many more ethnicities.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

zxcvbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,208
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2019, 12:13:00 AM »
I thought there were three races, four if you separate pygmies?

There are many more ethnicities.


Four.  "Red and yellow, black and white. They are precious in His sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world." :) The funny thing is, from what I've read the song is accurate.  Anthropologist divide us into 4 races along skin-color lines.  But there is some dissent that maybe brown is a race too (red, brown, yellow, black, and white...)

I will see if I can find a scholarly source; it was 20 years ago when I read about it.
"It's good, though..."

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,009
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2019, 08:07:44 AM »
I started putting Northern European American on a lot of forms I've had to fill out in the past. Made some people... not happy.

Woman who lived next to me for awhile was whiter than me, descendants of Dutch Boer settlers in South Africa. When she came to the United States and obtained her citizenship she started putting African American on her forms... You can imagine the hilarity that ensued from that.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2019, 08:29:08 AM »
Homo Sapiens
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2019, 08:32:12 AM »
Woman who lived next to me for awhile was whiter than me, descendants of Dutch Boer settlers in South Africa. When she came to the United States and obtained her citizenship she started putting African American on her forms... You can imagine the hilarity that ensued from that.

Some people really don''t have a sense of humor when asked to point out on a map just where is Africa-America
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2019, 09:02:34 AM »
I always check "Other"
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2019, 09:31:46 AM »
I work with a lot of people from the Middle East and India. They run the entire spectrum of Caucasian from blonde hair/blue eyes, to having darker features than most ‘Africa-Americans.’
Hispanics same thing.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,622
Re: Visual survey of race at work?
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2019, 09:46:16 AM »
And if you saw Megan Markle sitting in your waiting room, what race would you assign her to (or to her)?
Pick a day?  Some pictures I see of her she looks more "tan" and I would say mixed race.  Other pictures, she looks pretty light skinned.  I have seen typical white women who are not far off in looks.  Personally, I don't care.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge