Author Topic: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire  (Read 3655 times)

Ben

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Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« on: September 02, 2019, 09:59:48 AM »
The information out so far has been wildly inaccurate, but it appears a recreational dive boat (not "commercial dive ship") caught fire around 0330 this morning off Santa Cruz Island in CA. I haven't seen the name yet, but I dove off many of them in the area. The crew members got out, but it appears most passengers didn't.

Likely scenario: Multi-day, multi-island dive trip (very popular over Labor Day weekend). Boat moved from one dive site to another while passengers slept below decks, so that when the sun came out, they'd be at a new dive site to start their day. The passengers were likely trapped below by the fire. I can't remember the escape hatch layout down below on  those boats (many of them repurposed oil field crew boats), but as with commercial airlines, passengers usually blow off the safety briefing. Also it would have been dark if not pitch black down below, with power likely out.

Had the fire broken out just a few hours later, at least half the passengers would have been walking around in wetsuits and could have jumped overboard and swam to shore (the boats always anchor in calm areas, usually quite close to shore). Trapped by fire is a bad way to go.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/people-killed-boat-fire-california-santa-cruz-island
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makattak

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2019, 10:14:58 AM »
Good reminder not to blow off safety briefings and that not all the dangers around diving occur under water.

Just horrifying.
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Ben

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2019, 11:23:44 AM »
They just identified the vessel as the Truth Aquatics Conception. I've been on it many a time, but not for any overnights. They used to take families out as well for non-diving nature tours of the islands. A few of us from the office would rotate through those once in a while as science divers to bring up critters to put in a touch tank for the kids.

It's a very well run outfit, so it will be sadly interesting to see what caused this.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2019, 03:09:37 PM »
Does PADI* get the blame for these tragic deaths?

*Corrected for double tap as noted below.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 08:03:35 PM by RoadKingLarry »
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230RN

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2019, 07:54:35 PM »
^ "Professional Association of Diving Instructors | PADI" ???

Must have been a pretty big boat to hold >30 folks and their gear and overnight accessories....  ???

(ETA 75 feet, about the size of a PT boat.  Sardine-like berthing, I guess.)

A fire that big (and fast, I guess) over the whole vessel smacks of a fuel-related incident to me.   Wow.

According to hurried reports, one crew member was not aboard at the time.

Way-out thought:  Could the firefighting have been the cause of the sinking?

« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 09:04:47 PM by 230RN »

Ben

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2019, 08:28:00 AM »


A fire that big (and fast, I guess) over the whole vessel smacks of a fuel-related incident to me.   Wow.

Could have been an engine room fire. Could have been a galley fire as well. IIRC, all three of their boats have the berthing egress go through the galley, so a galley fire could have simply blocked egress. From preliminary reports, it's looking like the initial bodies recovered died from drowning rather than burning.  I would expect there might be some smoke inhalation deaths as well.
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Ben

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2019, 09:49:07 AM »
Well, this doesn't look great. It's USA Today, and a radio conversation where we only hear one side, so there could be missing or misunderstood information, but, yikes:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/09/02/santa-cruz-island-dive-boat-conception-disaster-transcript/2194064001/

I'm thinking "locked" is simply inaccurate language.  I don't recall there even being a hatch to the berthing gangway, just hatches to the galley and mess areas from the weather deck. Unless some crewmember panicked and closed the hatches hoping to contain the fire?
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MillCreek

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2019, 10:16:40 AM »
Interesting story on this on NPR on the drive in this morning. https://www.npr.org/2019/09/03/756976612/dozens-of-victims-feared-dead-after-diving-boat-catches-fire-in-california  Apparently, all of the survivors are crew members.
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MechAg94

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2019, 10:21:08 AM »
Could have been an engine room fire. Could have been a galley fire as well. IIRC, all three of their boats have the berthing egress go through the galley, so a galley fire could have simply blocked egress. From preliminary reports, it's looking like the initial bodies recovered died from drowning rather than burning.  I would expect there might be some smoke inhalation deaths as well.
I thought the boat burned to the water line, but didn't sink.  How did drowning deaths occur?  I am missing something there.
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Ben

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2019, 10:26:42 AM »
I thought the boat burned to the water line, but didn't sink.  How did drowning deaths occur?  I am missing something there.

It sank in ~60' of water. Also damage could have easily flooded berthing, which is at the lowest point of the hull.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2019, 02:48:27 PM »
It sank in ~60' of water. Also damage could have easily flooded berthing, which is at the lowest point of the hull.

It was a fiberglass hull, and fiberglass resin burns quite nicely, IIRC. News photos taken before the sinking sowed the hull gone right down to the waterline in approximately the area of the berthing compartment. It looked like someone had cut a window through the side of the hull.

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Ben

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2019, 02:54:30 PM »
I thought the boat burned to the water line, but didn't sink.  How did drowning deaths occur?  I am missing something there.

From some local news,  but not confirmed forensics, they are saying, drowning, burning, and body separations possibly from explosions. Looks like there's still a lot of investigation to go regarding types of death.
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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2019, 08:31:45 AM »
I thought the boat burned to the water line, but didn't sink.  How did drowning deaths occur?  I am missing something there.

That's why I was asking about firefighting efforts causing the sinking (and, by implication, drowning.)  There was an example of a full sized ship at berth turning over and sinking because of all the water pumped in to fight the on-board fire.

But body separations and explosions? I hadn't heard that before.

Terry, 230RN

REF (Sinking of the Normandie in New York Harbor):
https://newyorkhistoryblog.org/2014/09/the-sinking-of-the-s-s-normandie-at-nycs-pier-88/

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Unfortunately, a new problem would be realized. The fire boats attacking the port side blaze pumped water at a far greater volume than was used by the dockside hoses to starboard. The Normandie was listing heavily to Port, submerging a number of open portholes on that side. The Navy attempted to counterflood to right the list, pumping water into the starboard side so that the ship would settle evenly, but this proved fruitless. At a quarter till three, the Lafayette rolled over on her side and settled into the mud of the Hudson River’s bottom.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 08:52:56 AM by 230RN »

Ben

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2019, 08:42:04 AM »

But body separations and explosions? I hadn't heard that before.  Perhaps, as usual, reporting rate far exceeds the actual fact development rate.

Terry, 230RN

The local sheriff's dept reported that their dive team recovered separated bodies. The people (private boaters) that rescued the crew reported explosions, but USCG hasn't yet confirmed that. I would expect to hear some kind of explosions, if only smaller ones, given there were probably at a minimum, a dozen largish Lithium Ion battery packs for camera strobes, etc. charging overnight in the mess area. I recall there were a couple of corners in the mess with AC plugs that everyone always utilized for charging stuff like that.
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makattak

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2019, 08:53:57 AM »
The local sheriff's dept reported that their dive team recovered separated bodies. The people (private boaters) that rescued the crew reported explosions, but USCG hasn't yet confirmed that. I would expect to hear some kind of explosions, if only smaller ones, given there were probably at a minimum, a dozen largish Lithium Ion battery packs for camera strobes, etc. charging overnight in the mess area. I recall there were a couple of corners in the mess with AC plugs that everyone always utilized for charging stuff like that.

Possible source for the fire?
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2019, 09:10:30 AM »

Quote
Quote from: Ben on Today at 06:42:04 AM

The local sheriff's dept reported that their dive team recovered separated bodies. The people (private boaters) that rescued the crew reported explosions, but USCG hasn't yet confirmed that. I would expect to hear some kind of explosions, if only smaller ones, given there were probably at a minimum, a dozen largish Lithium Ion battery packs for camera strobes, etc. charging overnight in the mess area. I recall there were a couple of corners in the mess with AC plugs that everyone always utilized for charging stuff like that.

Possible source for the fire?

Hmm.  Good to think about. Ben, do you know where and how big the fuel tank(s) were?  Diesel, I assume?

Ben

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2019, 09:13:50 AM »
Possible source for the fire?

I was thinking about that too. I've certainly read lots of examples of them catching fire, but don't know enough about that to know if it would be hot enough or volatile enough to spread the fire as quickly as it apparently spread (maybe a cascade reaction given all the batteries in close proximity?). One would think if the fire started smaller or slower, the fire suppression system would have kicked in. Somehow that didn't happen, and it also started in a way that crew, who were awake, didn't have the time to try and catch it with an extinguisher.

Almost seems like maybe it started with an explosion that kept suppression from kicking in and immediately created a fire too big to fight by hand. They're supposed to have a preliminary report out in ten days. It will be interesting to see what they say.
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MillCreek

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2019, 09:45:47 AM »
^^^Is the galley fired by propane, I wonder.
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Ben

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2019, 09:58:55 AM »
^^^Is the galley fired by propane, I wonder.

I can't remember anymore. I'm pretty sure the BBQ (on the weather deck) was propane.
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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2019, 12:36:15 PM »
I just found out that one of the victims (part of the crew) is the great-niece of the secretary for my department at my old job.  They haven't recovered her body yet.  :'(
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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2019, 11:24:46 AM »
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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makattak

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2019, 11:28:37 AM »
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-05/what-caused-fire-aboard-the-conception

Maybe it was a lithium battery cooking off.

Nice to see all these smart people thinking like me.  >:D


(Or, on the other hand, maybe it was an obvious modern danger.)
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

TechMan

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2019, 12:02:01 PM »
It was probably someone's frayed charging cable.
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Bad decisions make good stories.

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Ben

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2019, 01:13:22 PM »
It was probably someone's frayed charging cable.

Given where the "charging area" is relative to the galley and egress points, I'm really looking at the batteries as a potential start point. My only issue would be, from lack of knowledge, if a good sized LiIon battery could burst into flame in such a way, or cause a cascade reaction of other batteries near it, to create that large of a fire that quickly.

From what we know so far, at least some of the passengers, as well as the one crewmember that was in berthing, were familiar with the emergency egress points. The fire had to spread quickly enough to choke off both the regular egress, and the emergency egress, which were at opposite ends of berthing. That would be one big and fast fire for not a single person to make it out.
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230RN

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Re: Over 30 Reported Dead in CA Dive Boat Fire
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2019, 07:30:29 PM »
I wondered about that, too:

^ "Professional Association of Diving Instructors | PADI" ???

Must have been a pretty big boat to hold >30 folks and their gear and overnight accessories....  ???

(ETA 75 feet, about the size of a PT boat.  Sardine-like berthing, I guess.)

A fire that big (and fast, I guess) over the whole vessel smacks of a fuel-related incident to me.   Wow.

According to hurried reports, one crew member was not aboard at the time.

Way-out thought:  Could the firefighting have been the cause of the sinking?


I was thinking engine fuel, but someone else mentioned cooking propane in the galley.

Another aspect of it was apparently they were sleeping.  I don't know about you, but when I first wake up, I do not integrate things too well.

I guess we'll have to wait for the official report.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 07:52:07 PM by 230RN »