Author Topic: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.  (Read 7741 times)

Ben

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Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« on: September 05, 2019, 05:54:13 PM »
So when CA had the big wildfires over the last couple of years, everyone was pointing fingers at, and suing the power companies, telling them to not be so negligent and do something to stop wildfires. This year they are. When fire weather reaches a critical threshold, they are shutting off power, and stating it could be for up to a week at a time.

It will be interesting to see how the people who told them to be better react to dealing with the same kind of outages those in hurricane zones deal with. "I told you to do something, not inconvenience me!"

https://www.independent.com/2019/09/05/fire-weather-power-shutoff-is-imminent-officials-say/
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HankB

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2019, 07:09:44 PM »
And . . . if a judge orders them NOT to shut off the power and a fire results, they'll have a pretty good defense both in a court of law and in the court of public opinion.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2019, 07:25:57 PM »
So when CA had the big wildfires over the last couple of years, everyone was pointing fingers at, and suing the power companies, telling them to not be so negligent and do something to stop wildfires. This year they are. When fire weather reaches a critical threshold, they are shutting off power, and stating it could be for up to a week at a time.

It will be interesting to see how the people who told them to be better react to dealing with the same kind of outages those in hurricane zones deal with. "I told you to do something, not inconvenience me!"

https://www.independent.com/2019/09/05/fire-weather-power-shutoff-is-imminent-officials-say/

Giving the people exactly what they asked for, good and hard.
 :rofl:

Of course keeping the power line right-of-ways clear of overgrown and dead brush/trees would be far too damaging to the natural environment.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Ben

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2019, 07:48:34 PM »
Giving the people exactly what they asked for, good and hard.
 :rofl:

Of course keeping the power line right-of-ways clear of overgrown and dead brush/trees would be far too damaging to the natural environment.

That is of course the problem. Even when they get permission to clear the easements, they're stuck in permission paperwork forever. So I don't blame them one bit for going this route. It's the absolute safest and surest way to prevent a utility caused fire.
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dogmush

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2019, 03:44:53 AM »
Wow.  It's sure a good thing generators never start brush fires.  That would be ironically tragic.  (or maybe tragically ironic.)


MechAg94

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2019, 09:00:52 AM »
So is the electrical distribution network still a monopoly over there?  What does a monopoly do when they are sued?  Don't they just pass it on to customers?
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dogmush

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2019, 10:39:48 AM »
They implied as much in the article:

Quote
In the meantime, Guthrie went on, Edison continues to harden its equipment against fire across its 50,000 square miles of “high-risk” coverage area. They’re either insulating or undergrounding overhead lines, though Guthrie noted it costs the utility around $3 million to bury a mile of line compared to $430,000 to cover it. The extra cost is passed along to the customer, she said.

If they're passing on the line costs, you know they are rolling court costs in to the operating budget.

Ben

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2019, 10:43:16 AM »
They implied as much in the article:

If they're passing on the line costs, you know they are rolling court costs in to the operating budget.

Wow. $3 million per mile.  I'm curious what those costs are in other states.
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MechAg94

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2019, 04:25:52 PM »
Wow. $3 million per mile.  I'm curious what those costs are in other states.
That sounds like pipeline costs estimates I have heard.  I assume they are not just shoving it in the ground.
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Ben

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2019, 08:22:21 AM »
Heh. Two days after the first planned outage, citizens are looking for other solutions.  :laugh:

https://www.independent.com/2019/09/10/edison-and-fire/
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brimic

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2019, 09:03:20 AM »
Why doesn't everyone just buy a windmill?  :rofl: :rofl:
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2019, 12:42:48 PM »
Heh. Two days after the first planned outage, citizens are looking for other solutions.  :laugh:

https://www.independent.com/2019/09/10/edison-and-fire/

Hah! What a joke.

Quote
I can understand SoCalEdison’s strong need to protect itself from possibly ruinous fire-related lawsuits, but I do think that the public, via the California Public Utilities Commission, should have some say in the matter.

IIRC, the Public Utilities Commission has had their say in the matter. They told the electric companies that they'd be responsible if their lines spark and cause a fire.

Quote
There may likely be solutions in which SCE et al. could be protected from lawsuits, while the state provides reasonable compensation to those affected by fires.

Who does this clown think "the state" is, and where does he think "the state" gets its money? The people pay, whether it's through higher electric bills or through a tax to "reimburse" people for dames caused by fires. It's just a question of which pocket is being picked.

Quote
I feel that the public’s needs and desires should be factored into to any decision regarding this matter.

That's the role of the PUC. Obviously, the bottom line is that the public wants there to be no fires, no cost associated with preventing them, and no clear-cutting of the rights-of-way. That's not going to happen, so let's more on to discussing possible solutions.
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Fly320s

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2019, 09:40:08 AM »
I'm in SF right now on my way to the airport.  The local radio news was talking about the imminent power shutdown. The two radio hosts were a bit miffed about having to go without power for a few days to a week.  I laughed.
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Fly320s

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2019, 10:47:52 AM »
Sounds like California is getting what they demanded "good and hard".
 :rofl:
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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TommyGunn

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2019, 11:00:15 AM »
California.....finally reduced to third world status.

Took long enough. >:D
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Ben

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2019, 10:58:26 AM »
I saw this morning that Gavin Newsom was yelling at PG&E for not clearing brush under their easements.  ;/

While everyone there (CA APS members excluded) continues to blame the power companies and the state gov can apparently do no wrong. I bet many of them are the same people that yell for solar, but don't have any panels on their roofs, because somehow, they should be installed for free. "Grid power is a human right!"

Such a difference between that and Idaho (not to be continually bragging about Idaho). My electric bills are literally a quarter what they were in CA, while using way more electricity. I haven't yet had more than a 5 second outage, and a couple of months ago  I got a notice from Idaho Power that they were cutting my rates because their costs went down, so they were passing that on.

It's not like Idaho Power is that much better than Edison or PG&E (as in, they are all efficient when they can be), but the state here keeping out of Idaho Power's business seems to make a big difference. Of course here, if people lose power in December, it's a bit more life-threatening than if it happens in LA, and I think the state gov prioritizes that.
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MechAg94

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2019, 11:18:26 AM »
I don't know that Texas is any better, but I think a lot of other states look at California in that way. 

Here I am getting power from Trieagle.  The lines are operated and maintained by Centerpoint.  There is still a state power commission that monitors things.  As far as I know, they will still come in and clear power line easements.  Most of the infrastructure near me is based around industrial use, not residential.
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Fly320s

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2019, 02:00:20 PM »
Idaho's average electric rate is half that of California's.  Free states like NH only pay... more than California.  Damn it!

https://paylesspower.com/blog/electric-rates-by-state/

Pretty much all of New England pays above average rates.
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HankB

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2019, 02:24:45 PM »
. . . Of course here, if people lose power in December, it's a bit more life-threatening than if it happens in LA, and I think the state gov prioritizes that.
Given the city's demographics, summer nights in LA without power might actually be rather dangerous.
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Ben

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2019, 02:51:05 PM »
Idaho's average electric rate is half that of California's.  Free states like NH only pay... more than California.  Damn it!

https://paylesspower.com/blog/electric-rates-by-state/

Pretty much all of New England pays above average rates.

I'm not sure if that chart is taking in the tiered rates in CA and a few other states. Tier 3 in SoCal is around $0.45/kw. While you can avoid that tier on the coast, it's hard to do so in the central valley with the 100deg+ temps. My dad is a miser and on the 2700 sq ft house on the family farm, the average bill from JUL-SEP was around $350/mo. One neighbor in a smaller house that liked to stay cool said his was around $600/mo for the same period.

Here, the average on my 2800 sq ft house since I've been here is $65/mo. I topped out at $80 in August. $65 was about my average for my one bedroom condo in Santa Barbara when I was living there (where mostly no AC or heating is needed).

What's really cheap here is ag electricity. For flood irrigating my lower 25 acres through the summer, plus topping off my pond a couple times a month, I've been averaging ~$40/mo.
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Ben

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2019, 09:57:18 PM »
I am rolling on the floor here!  :rofl:

Apparently a ton of people in CA (and likely elsewhere) installed solar panels, but didn't include any battery backup. Now they can't understand why their solar panels aren't getting them through the power outages.  :rofl:

Of course Bloomberg explained it as, "batteries power the solar panels."  ;/

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2019/10/11/californians-discover-their-solar-panels-dont-work-when-pge-shuts-down-the-grid/
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2019, 10:36:43 PM »
I am rolling on the floor here!  :rofl:

Apparently a ton of people in CA (and likely elsewhere) installed solar panels, but didn't include any battery backup. Now they can't understand why their solar panels aren't getting them through the power outages.  :rofl:

Of course Bloomberg explained it as, "batteries power the solar panels."  ;/

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2019/10/11/californians-discover-their-solar-panels-dont-work-when-pge-shuts-down-the-grid/

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Ben

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Re: Do Something About Wildfires! Okay, We Will.
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2019, 10:55:31 AM »
https://www.foxnews.com/us/oxygen-dependent-man-dies-12-minutes-after-pge-cuts-power-to-his-home

I smell big fat lawsuit.


Almost certainly. One can only hope the state is one of the defendants, but I doubt it.
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