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Author Topic: B17 crashed in CT today  (Read 1505 times)
WLJ
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« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2019, 03:01:23 PM »

Yeah, that'd do it.

You'd think the ground crew would notice the wrong fuel truck sitting next to her, though. Kinda hard not to notice the giant "100 Octane Only" decal next to the fuel fills, too.

Brad

Hope a little humor is not inappropriate at this point

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EHDBJFoZL4
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Jamisjockey
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« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2019, 03:43:40 AM »

Yeah, that'd do it.

You'd think the ground crew would notice the wrong fuel truck sitting next to her, though. Kinda hard not to notice the giant "100 Octane Only" decal next to the fuel fills, too.

Brad


Attention to detail, or lack thereof, is a killer in this industry.

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« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2019, 09:53:19 AM »

Hope a little humor is not inappropriate at this point

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EHDBJFoZL4

This is what came to my mind: https://youtu.be/AgjA_iXEr3A 
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230RN
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« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2019, 01:21:18 PM »

Additional late details.  Who, rescue attempts, ground reports, etc.

https://apnews.com/cdd09aa19ff344ee82a73b79ea00c8e1
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2019, 02:28:13 PM »

Additional late details.  Who, rescue attempts, ground reports, etc.

https://apnews.com/cdd09aa19ff344ee82a73b79ea00c8e1

Not really anything new. The article dates to last Thursday. Is there anything current in the way of updates?
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230RN
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« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2019, 02:45:19 PM »

Perhaps you can find a later one.  I don't expect anything to come from the investigators until they make a final report, whenever.  I guess that's standard procedure. The link says they're looking at that engine.  (Of course.  Duh.)
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« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2019, 06:51:09 AM »

There may have been some last minute maintenance to one of the engines.  The wife of one of the victims, Robert Ridell, reported that her husband had texted her: ôThis doesnĺt bode well, the pilot shut off the engine and has left his seat,ö as he waited for the B-17 to take off.
The B-17 apparently took off 40 minutes behind schedule.
Story is here.
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« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2019, 12:58:26 PM »

A walkaround by NTSB

https://youtu.be/DIjWv0lcLz0
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« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2019, 02:46:37 PM »

That is a shame. Other than a couple of control surfaces and trim tabs there isn't much left to salvage. It's callous but hell I feel kind of sad the B17 is gone, it can't be replaced, the people other than to family probably won't be missed nearly as much if at all.  undecided

bob
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230RN
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« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2019, 05:12:03 PM »

20 minutes NTSB news conference.

https://youtu.be/19vJ27Q5WSg

Jennifer Homindy (sp?) did a great job in handling the questions.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 05:27:32 PM by 230RN » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2019, 01:45:05 PM »

I work on the Air Guard base on the west side of the airport; I was 1/4 mile away at my desk when this happened.  I had speculated that the aircraft may have impacted either the perimeter fence or landing lights, and it seems I was right.  Sad
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« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2019, 02:19:24 PM »

https://www.courant.com/breaking-news/hc-br-bradley-b-17-crash-mitchell-melton-released-from-hospital-20191009-lapaprst4fb5tmga2thspnrjd4-story.html

Hit the approach lights.
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JD

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« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2019, 05:25:33 PM »

Sen. Richard Blumenthal wants to know why passengers were even "allowed" to go for a ride on a B17:

https://www.courant.com/breaking-news/hc-br-blumenthal-faa-probe-deadly-b-17-crash-bradley-20191007-flz6vy6bi5hmrpzty6i6wilmle-story.html#nt=interstitial-manual

*expletive deleted*ck you, Dick,  Die in an avgas fueled fire.  This is an awful enough thing already without you piping in that "that shouldn't even be legal".

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« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2019, 04:42:19 AM »

Sen. Blumenthal has once again proven himself to be a political opportunist and a despicable human being.
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« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2019, 11:27:51 AM »

Quit making personal decisions about your safety and follow the directions of your elected overlords.
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« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2019, 10:47:24 AM »

The NTSB released its preliminary report (initial factual findings) last week on the crash.  Story here on AVWeb.

A pdf of the NTSB report is here.
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Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

"Somebody got up on the wrong side of the apocalypse."
WLJ
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« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2019, 11:03:39 AM »

The NTSB released its preliminary report (initial factual findings) last week on the crash.  Story here on AVWeb.

A pdf of the NTSB report is here.

Quote
Examination of the left-side engines (Numbers 1 and 2) suggest they were still making power at the time of impact while the investigators found that the Number-3 engineĺs propeller had one blade that was ôimpact damaged and near the feather position. The other two blades appeared in a position between low pitch and feather.ö Moreover, the report confirms that ôů all three propeller blades on the No. 4 engine appeared in the feather position.ö The NTSB notes that both engines on the left wing and the inboard right-side engine had been overhauled at the previous annual, around 270 hours prior to the accident. The Number 4 engine had 1106 hours since major overhaul at the time of the crash

Looks like both starboard engines failed. My guess from the feathered positions, and the rough mag call, first #4 and then on final approach #3  
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 11:30:54 AM by WLJ » Report to moderator   Logged
WLJ
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« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2019, 11:15:28 AM »

Quote
At that time, the airplane was about 500 feet above ground level (agl) on the right crosswind leg of the airport traffic pattern for runway 6. The approach controller verified the request and asked if the pilot required any assistance, to which he replied no. The controller then asked for the reason for the return to the airport, and the pilot replied that the airplane had a Ĺrough magĺ on the No. 4 engine.

Mag = Magneto
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« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2019, 01:22:10 PM »

General information:

No longer really that relevant, since the 9-0-9 preliminary investigation revealed no evident fuel mixup*.  However, acording to this (dated 15 Oct 2019) there was a fatal at the Kokomo Indiana airport due to a fuel mixup:

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/misfueling-likely-cause-of-recent-aerostar-crash/

Since the 9-0-9 crash, this old groundlubber has been wondering how come they didn't use different mating nozzles for the different fuels.

Well, duh, they do, but this popped out at me from the article cited in this post:

Quote
The normal checks and balances are bolstered by the design of Jet A fuel nozzles, which are built to not fit into the filler ports of piston aircraft. Nevertheless, according to the NTSB prelim, ôThe [FBO] employee said that he was able to orientate [sic] the different shaped nozzle (relative to the 100 low lead fuel truck nozzle) from the Jet A fuel truck by positioning it 90 degrees over the wing fuel tank filler necks and about 45 degrees over the fuselage filler necks. He said the he initially spilled about one gallon of fuel during refueling and adjusted his technique so subsequent fuel spillage was minimal.ö

Italics mine.

Hooooleee excrement !


Attention to detail, or lack thereof, is a killer in this industry.

And sometimes, even protective details can be defeated by a dedicated jerk.

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* "According to the NTSBĺs initial report [on the 9-0-9 crash]: 'On the morning of the accident flight, an airport lineman at BDL assisted the loadmaster as he added 160 gallons of 100LL aviation fuel to the accident airplane. The lineman stated that the accident airplane was the first to be fueled with 100LL fuel that day.'"
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« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2019, 08:47:16 PM »

We also had a wrong fuel crash here in Spokane a while back.

Quote
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230RN
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« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2019, 03:19:46 AM »

Thanks, BobR.

From BobR's last link above ("Therrell" was the person who did the refueling in that accident of 22 Feb 2015):

Quote
Therrell was an employee of Western Aviation, Felts Fieldĺs fuel concessionaire. The lawsuit claims he had a history of drug problems that should have precluded him from getting the job. It claims Western Aviation hired him because his uncle, Tim Gump, owns the company.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/jul/01/lawsuit-attendant-who-refueled-plane-that-crashed-/
(Note the word "claims.")

In that link, I was also tragically amused at the concept of people using "rogue nozzles" on the fuel delivery lines.  Good grief.

Terry
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« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2019, 12:00:44 PM »

There is something that I have been wondering about since I read the NTSB initial report.  It looks like problems developed with both #3 and #4 motors prior to the crash landing.  It seemed odd initially that simultaneous failures would happen on that wing.  Then I remembered back to my days with Sentimental Journey in Arizona.  During my time with the CAF we were concerned about the self-sealing fuel tanks on our B-17.  SJ still had the original self-sealing tanks that were installed when she was built.  The concern was that the tanks would degrade as they aged and the sealant would migrate into the tanks and eventually clog the fuel system.
We were discussing replacing the tanks with non-self-sealing tanks made of aluminum.  It would have been very spendy to do it even back then as the tanks would have been completely custom units.  Not to mention the laborious task of removing the original tanks and replacing them with the new units.  It would have been a months long project for an all-volunteer group at the time.
I wonder if "909" still had the self-sealing tanks installed from when she was manufactured?  If so, they were probably getting pretty rough by this point.
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Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

"Somebody got up on the wrong side of the apocalypse."
230RN
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« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2019, 06:12:59 PM »

^ Would multiple parallel easily replaced / flushed fuel filters have cured that problem?

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« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2019, 03:03:34 AM »

^ Would multiple parallel easily replaced / flushed fuel filters have cured that problem?

Technically speaking it probably would have solved the issue, but I doubt it would have been a practical solution.  The fuel filters would have required space that was easily accessible for regular servicing, and the interiors of B17 wings aren't very accessible.
There are large panels on the underside of a B17 wing held in place by screws.  They are removable, but they are also structural components that contribute strength to the wing.  Because of this, special jacks must be placed at several points under the wing whenever the panels are removed.  The panels are only removed for major servicing of the aircraft.
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Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

"Somebody got up on the wrong side of the apocalypse."
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« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2019, 07:57:57 AM »

Hey rocket man did yĺall look at commissioning Goodyear for some custom rubber fuel tanks to replace the original self sealing tanks? Dad had to replace the fuel tanks in our Cessna and thatĺs who made them
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