Author Topic: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal  (Read 3639 times)

Ben

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Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« on: November 12, 2019, 08:11:51 AM »
So Disney+ launched today, and of course they were taking about it on the business news shows on the Teevee. I heard one interesting analysis: All these new services - run by production companies/networks - are pulling their content from the "old" big three. By the time they're done, if someone wants to watch the most popular shows out there, new and rerun (The Office is the most watched rerun ever and is being pulled from Netflix), signing up for enough streaming services to do that will cost more than a standard (not introductory offer) cable subscription.

Apparently statistics suggest that people will now need four streaming services to see content once it is all split up. While something like Disney is cheap, if you want cable alternatives, stuff like Youtube TV costs $50/mo.

I also hear the millennials may be the smart consumers in this new era, because unlike us old farts, they have no loyalty to a particular service. Older people get something, cable for example, and just stick with it and complain. Millennials don't do long term contracts. They will, for example, sign up for Netflix for a month, watch stuff, cancel Netflix, then maybe a few months later sign up for Netflix again, binge some stuff, then cancel. Bouncing around saves them the multiple monthly bills for something they're not using.

It's somewhat ironic to me, as streaming was supposed to kill cable via price, convenience, and content. Now it looks like greed may have given cable a reprieve from death row.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2019, 09:04:36 AM »
It's more than just cost.

Streaming allows for the consumer to evade commercials.

Cable, with DVR or on-demand, still embeds the commercials.  It's been a long time since I've even watched anything at a friend's house who had cable and on-demand streamed content, but my recollection was that commercials were embedded in it Hulu/Youtube style, where it was impossible to fast forward through them.  Netflix/Amazon streaming has no commercials.  Amazon is just now starting to do the HBO-style commercials, for their own content, just before the feature you want to watch and I hate even that, but it's far superior to anything else.

And the ability to choose slimmed down streaming providers is huge too (which you did cover).
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Ben

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2019, 09:15:39 AM »
It's more than just cost.

Streaming allows for the consumer to evade commercials.


Actually that's not true anymore. Ask me how I know...nevermind, I'll tell you.  :)

I have Youtube TV for fifty ducats a month as my cable alternative. On cable, I was able to FF through any commercials on any program. That''s how it was for Youtube TV for a while too, but no longer. Certain networks (coincidentally some that have their own streaming - I'm looking at you CBS) force commercials, even on recorded content.

If I watch a Nat Geo show live or on demand for instance, I'm stuck with commercials that I can't bypass. If I put it in my library as a recorded show however, I can FF through the commercials. That is NOT true for CBS and several other networks. Even if I record a CBS show in my library, FF for commercials is disabled, so it's the same as watching the show over the air - except over the air it's free. If I'm paying fifty bucks a month, for me, the majority of that cost is to bypass the &%^&$%( commercials.

I'm guessing if I were to sign up for CBS All Access,  I could skip commercials, but I'm not going to do that for one show.
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MechAg94

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2019, 09:18:38 AM »
I have PlayStation Vue currently.  On most of the content you can skip commercials.  However, some stuff you are locked out from that for some reason.  I noticed it on some of the network content.  Looks like I am seeing the same thing Ben has seen.  That sad part is the commercials generally suck these days or they are just generic crap.

Playstation Vue had a crap load of streaming problems last weekend that continued yesterday.  Some channels just would not work.  I even tried to watch saved stuff from last weekend and couldn't.  I might be switching to a different service soon if I can't get that fixed.

Thanks for the reminder.  I need to cancel my Netflix account.  I watched a bunch of movies earlier in the year, but that Dave Chappelle special is about all I have watched in the last month or two.  I meant to watch the game of thrones stuff, but I find myself reluctant to get caught up in that.
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MechAg94

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2019, 09:22:30 AM »
The funny part to me is that if you like to watch guntuber content, you can spend quite a bit of time just watching that on a weekly basis instead of TV.  That is partly why I got rid of cable. 
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K Frame

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2019, 09:51:31 AM »
I've been saying exactly this for some time given the rise of exclusive content streaming deals.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2019, 11:55:19 AM »
Actually that's not true anymore. Ask me how I know...nevermind, I'll tell you.  :)

I have Youtube TV for fifty ducats a month as my cable alternative. On cable, I was able to FF through any commercials on any program. That''s how it was for Youtube TV for a while too, but no longer. Certain networks (coincidentally some that have their own streaming - I'm looking at you CBS) force commercials, even on recorded content.

If I watch a Nat Geo show live or on demand for instance, I'm stuck with commercials that I can't bypass. If I put it in my library as a recorded show however, I can FF through the commercials. That is NOT true for CBS and several other networks. Even if I record a CBS show in my library, FF for commercials is disabled, so it's the same as watching the show over the air - except over the air it's free. If I'm paying fifty bucks a month, for me, the majority of that cost is to bypass the &%^&$%( commercials.

I'm guessing if I were to sign up for CBS All Access,  I could skip commercials, but I'm not going to do that for one show.

Hulu has commercials, Youtube has commercials, I expect Disney+ to have commercials eventually if it doesn't already.  I refuse to buy Disney+ just on grounds of the dumpster fire they've turned Star Wars into.

More and more what I tend to do, is pay for the content I want to see, but still view it in the manner I demand to view it.  I'll buy shows from Amazon or HBO or whatever, then either record it via PlayOn software or download an MP4 from Usenet and store it on my Plex Media Server.  I'm still supporting the content I like, without supporting the entire channel's load of bullshyt that I don't like.  And I view it commercial-free.

No one actually pays for crap like biased news, The View, Oprah, etc.  ESPN is tanking now that they have to actually generate revenue from people that want to pay for their service, rather than being coerce-bundled via cable.  Channel-bundle streaming is the next effort to subsidize bad programming on the backs of 1-2 actual good shows that people want to watch.  ESPN/Hulu/Disney+ needs to break up even more to even smaller pieces. 

I still remember how much I despised SlingTV when I tried it for a week, a couple years ago.  To this day it makes the GF giggle in remembrance of my rants in regards to the service.  About the worst thing anyone can do that wants to sell me something, is put a commercial in front of me.  Especially a "men are stupid, woman saves the day" commercial.  It's no wonder people are so stupid in general, if commercials actually reach their targeted audience and influence them in any way.

Netflix is a priceless gem.  Their creators abhor commercials.  They've been approached countless times by different agents of commercialization, and they refuse every time.  It's glorious.  Amazon is trying so hard to AOL-garden-wall their services that all they have are 90's style HBO commercials, at the beginning of a streamed item, and only for their own productions.  It's frustrating, but not insurmountable.  A quick 20 second FF burst currently skips the only commercial in the product.
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Ben

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2019, 12:11:02 PM »
I'll buy shows from Amazon or HBO or whatever, then either record it via PlayOn software or download an MP4 from Usenet and store it on my Plex Media Server.  I'm still supporting the content I like, without supporting the entire channel's load of bullshyt that I don't like.  And I view it commercial-free.

 I actually need to do a cost/benefit analysis on that. I have always purchased shows that I really, really, like via Amazon (e.g., Justified, Longmire). I don't do that for my "it's okay" content though. I may need to see if purchasing the individual shows/seasons ends up being cheaper than trying to watch them via multiple services.
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Nightfall

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2019, 12:12:36 PM »
I might be switching to a different service soon if I can't get that fixed.

I'm afraid you'll definitely be switching soon, as PS Vue will stop service January 2020. Wife and I are looking into YouTube or Hulu Live.
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WLJ

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2019, 12:22:39 PM »
Apparently Disney+ is already having issues  :facepalm:

‘What the F!’: Disney+ launched this morning but we’re already seeing reports that it’s crashed
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2019/11/12/what-the-f-disney-launched-this-morning-but-were-already-seeing-reports-that-its-crashed/
 
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MechAg94

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2019, 03:38:48 PM »
I'm afraid you'll definitely be switching soon, as PS Vue will stop service January 2020. Wife and I are looking into YouTube or Hulu Live.
Thanks.  I hadn't heard that. 

The only reason i have it is to get all the college football games and coverage.  I will have to look around.
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2019, 07:24:13 PM »
I have PlayStation Vue currently.  On most of the content you can skip commercials.  However, some stuff you are locked out from that for some reason.  I noticed it on some of the network content.  Looks like I am seeing the same thing Ben has seen.  That sad part is the commercials generally suck these days or they are just generic crap.

Playstation Vue had a crap load of streaming problems last weekend that continued yesterday.  Some channels just would not work.  I even tried to watch saved stuff from last weekend and couldn't.  I might be switching to a different service soon if I can't get that fixed.

Thanks for the reminder.  I need to cancel my Netflix account.  I watched a bunch of movies earlier in the year, but that Dave Chappelle special is about all I have watched in the last month or two.  I meant to watch the game of thrones stuff, but I find myself reluctant to get caught up in that.

GoT isn't on Netflix. As far as I'm aware, it isn't on any streaming service except HBO Go. You can get it on Amazon, but you have to pay for it specifically.

And I haven't had any commercials on Amazon.  ???

I have a feeling that the market will balance it all out in a few years and a bunch of these services will go bust, leaving only a few survivors at a more reasonable cost with the platforms people actually prefer.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2019, 08:36:23 PM »


I have a feeling that the market will balance it all out in a few years and a bunch of these services will go bust, leaving only a few survivors at a more reasonable cost with the platforms people actually prefer.

I suspect we're starting to see the real cost of making good TV for consumers that want it... versus the operating cost of old school broadcast/cable 24 hour programming.

When you have a simplex unicast radio signal (legacy TV is just a radio signal) and 24 hours a day to use it, you feel obligated to have something on it all day and night.  When that radio signal morphs into a simplex electronic transmission over a coax cable, you still have a portal into peoples' houses 24 hours a day and the temptation to capitalize on that via commercials and low budget programming is high.

Streaming completely redefines the formula in favor of the consumer though.

Look at something like Dallas, in the 80's.  Serialized releases every week.  Captive time window for audiences.  Peak advertising rates for commercial spots.  But having that radio license to broadcast the show means you have 23 hours on that day to fill, plus 24 hours for 6 more days a week.  So you fill it with stuff like Young and the Restless, General Hospital, The Price is Right, Press Your Luck, Donahue, Oprah, Jerry Springer, cartoons (which target children with toy ads specifically tailored to complement the particular show), news and syndicated reruns. 

Contrast with today, Stranger Things (or The Boys, or the Netflix Defenders various series, or any big streaming hit).  Binge-released all in one dump.  Free viewing windows.  No commercials.  No simplex unicast delivery means it can be consumed any time by any viewer.  No commitment to stay with the streaming provider.  The streaming provider doesn't have to fill those remaining hours of the week with fluff content or even develop a programming schedule.  They just have to have SOME content.  It can be old IP.  A previous successful prime demand show.  Whatever.

They don't have to time-fill with seminar/lecture format host shows, or cheap soaps.  So Netflix doesn't have those.  Amazon doesn't have those.  News isn't trusted any more, and isn't a prime demand piece of programming.  So Netflix and Amazon don't have those.  Game shows aren't consumed by streaming consumers.  So Netflix and Amazon don't have those.

It costs less labor since you're not supporting a 95% schedule of schlock for your 5% of good legacy-format content.  But you need to have the best talent for that prime content.

The big losers here, are the people that make the crap programs.  The 480 channels you never watched on cable.  The shows that were on from 8AM to 5PM while you were at work, or on 10PM to 6AM while you slept.  Previously, they'd be funded by your cable bill.  Under streaming, it's all in the click analysis.  If no one wants to watch your program, at any time of the day, you suck and you're getting cut.

I don't think there is an actual market for 500 cable channels of unique 24x7 content.  Certainly not one that wants to actually pay for that content.

Netflix can produce some damn amazing content for $11/month from me and their other subscribers.  Amazon isn't quite as strong, but my Prime membership pays for free shipping and other things besides streaming content.  I never really considered their streaming to be something I subscribed to, it was more of an "oh I get that AND free shipping."  And I use their streaming interface to gain access to HBO for GoT when it releases a new season.  Then I cancel HBO once it's over.  I do similar with Hulu for Handmaid's Tale, but I download a rip off Usenet because I can't stand Hulu's commercials.  I still support the program I like, but I watch it how I want to. 
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2019, 09:13:37 PM »
^ I suspect you may overestimate the public's desire for quality TV, says the girl who has been binge watching Say Yes To The Dress for several days now, but otherwise I agree with you.

 :lol:


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dogmush

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2019, 11:01:56 PM »
I suspect that BSL and AZ Redhawk are both correct.  Folks are going to end up bouncing around between services a lot more than we did with cable, and some of the streaming services will fail.

For my house, we have Netflix ($14.99), YouTube Premium ($9.99, grandfathered in from when it was Red), and I got the founders day price for Disney+ ($3.40 a month, sunk costs). Like Redhawk we are prime members because of the shipping, so that service is "free" to us, as we'd pay for prime either way.

From just a little poking around I don't see us extending Disney+ after the first three years, but we'll see what good, new content they come up with.  I tried Hulu, but didn't find enough stuff there I liked.  I turn HBO on and off on Amazon based on whether they have a show I want to watch.

The other hard to qualify elephant in the room is piracy.  Especially with the millennial crowd, there's a price point where they just go steal it.  GoT saw this. Despite how much they made, it was pirated a LOT. I also saw reports at the time as Season 8 went bad, HBO subscriptions dropped off and pirating went up.  I'm not sure what the optimum threshold is for "pay and stream" vs. "pirate what I want" but I'd bet the big streaming services have pretty robust analytics on that.

p12

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2019, 11:35:49 PM »
I’m on Playstaion Vue and will decide on who to subscribe to when the time comes. YouTube live is looking best right now.

May go with JetStream with precautions of course. Don’t know for sure at this time.

Silver Bullet

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2019, 01:00:21 AM »
Hulu $13 per month
Roku 24 free channels out of >1000 available:  $0 per month

Those are my only new expenses when I switched to streaming.  I keep all my Roku channels free except for Hulu.  I made an exception there because it is the only Roku channel I know of that provides current tv shows.

I was already subscribing to Netflix, I just changed from DVDs only to fewer DVDs + streaming, for less than I was paying for DVDs only.  I already subscribed to Amazon Prime, so Prime Video costs me nothing.

I added a tv antenna for $30, but I'm so far away from Seattle that I only get a few channels with the antenna, and not always the same channels, probably depending on atmospheric conditions.  I can usually get the Seahawks game on the Fox channel.  I could probably get more channels if I make the effort to put the antenna higher up, or maybe by paying to get a powered antenna.

I miss The History Channel with Forged In Fire, but Hulu will have the episodes a year after they're broadcast.  I guess History Channel has a bigger lag from when first shown than the over-the-air broadcast network channels.

MechAg94

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2019, 08:54:47 AM »

The big losers here, are the people that make the crap programs.  The 480 channels you never watched on cable.  The shows that were on from 8AM to 5PM while you were at work, or on 10PM to 6AM while you slept.  Previously, they'd be funded by your cable bill.  Under streaming, it's all in the click analysis.  If no one wants to watch your program, at any time of the day, you suck and you're getting cut.

And with the cable TV format, each one of those crappy 480 channels got a small cut of your monthly subscription and a lot of people were getting rich providing poor content with few viewers. 
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MechAg94

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2019, 09:01:00 AM »
On commercials, I wonder if anyone has done a study on how long the average viewer will sit and watch commercials before they change channels or go do something else.  That is one reason I struggled to watch sitcoms.  I didn't care about them enough to record them and skip commercials, and every time one of the 6/8 minute commercial breaks came up I got bored and either left the room or switched channels. 

On the other hand, if I am watching a youtube video and one of the 5 second commercials pops up, it doesn't bother me.  I just let it play.  What ticks me off is if you don't hit the skip button, Youtube will often keep playing commercial after commercial for 15 minutes or more.  I am not sure if that a strategy or if youtube is just padding their ad rates thinking someone isn't paying attention.  If I am playing a Q&A video while doing something else, it really pisses me off when I can't get to my phone to skip the commercial.  Makes me really, really dislike the product being advertised.  There is some dentist commercial that is doing that a lot lately.  That dumbass soap commercial sucks also. 
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MechAg94

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2019, 09:02:38 AM »
I’m on Playstaion Vue and will decide on who to subscribe to when the time comes. YouTube live is looking best right now.

May go with JetStream with precautions of course. Don’t know for sure at this time.
I will have to look at those.  I mainly want to see college football and the SEC channel so I may look at ESPN also.
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2019, 12:36:07 AM »
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MechAg94

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2019, 09:17:18 AM »
https://babylonbee.com/news/more-households-saving-money-by-replacing-cable-television-with-47-different-streaming-services

I'm beginning to think that the folks at Babylon Bee read APS.


Quote
At publishing time, Disney had announced a separate streaming service for every single one of its shows and movies.
:lol:
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2019, 09:47:13 PM »
GF and I were talking about this the other night, with Netflix on the screen as we did so.

After a little more refinement of my thoughts, I think it really comes down to the mindset of 24/7 programming schedule of hundreds of channels catering to every possible interest... versus acknowledging that the average TV consumer just wants 3 hours a day of good content.

Netflix and its modernized competitors are striving to attract those 3 hours.  Can they put out 3 better hours of content every day, on average, than the legacy ABC/CBS/Fox/NBC/Cable entertainment system can?  They don't care about the people that need a TV on for white noise, or a distraction while folding laundry, or whatever.  The content discrimination factor of the "gotta have it on all day" consumer is pretty low, and Netflix et al can syndicate anything at low cost to satisfy that viewer if they really want to.

Without having to subsidize dozens of programs to fill the content void, Netflix or any other streaming provider can do more with less.  They just have to ensure they have smart routing/streaming algorithms to handle the voluminous traffic patterns.
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Boomhauer

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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2019, 05:54:18 AM »
Price wise it’s a little better deal at first then the cable company jacks the price a lot. My Charter bill is up to $70 for Internet only, where it started at $50 two and a half years ago. I know lots of long term cable or sat customers who end up paying almost $200 a month for tv/internet/phone

Yes the streamers go up on price also but not nearly as drastically or as much
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Re: Cable TV Might be the Better Deal
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2019, 07:50:09 AM »
Commercials are everywhere now....even youp0rn has commercials these days!  >:D


My thing is we've cut back on the amount of TV we consume anyway.  Cable was full of channels that drew no interest to us.  You must either catch a show live or spend the time setting up the DVR to watch it.  The DVR which they charge extra for.
With a couple streaming services you can pay $30 or so a month and watch what you like when you like.
The straw for us was when our cable contract ended and the price doubled.  They expressed no interest in retaining us as customers so we moved on.
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