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Author Topic: One more problem with wind power  (Read 417 times)
bedlamite
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« on: January 16, 2020, 08:09:45 AM »

https://principia-scientific.org/50000-tons-of-useless-wind-turbine-blades-dumped-in-the-landfill/

This is one I hadn't even considered. The blades are getting so big they can't easily be disposed of, lifespan is half of what was originally expected, and there is going to be a lot more of them in the coming years.
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2020, 08:12:50 AM »

I've seen the larger blades being trucked to a wind farm down near Twin Falls. "Impressive size" is an understatement.
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2020, 08:21:08 AM »

Also, besides the blades, bedlamite's article is worth a read for general "alternative vs standard" energy sources. Example:

Quote
The one thing not mentioned by the ôRenewable Energy Aficionadosö is that the more solar and wind that is added to the grid, the more volatile and problematic it becomes.  You see, the U.S. Electric Grid has been powered by BASELOAD energy from Coal, Natural Gas, and Nuclearů for the most part.  This type of energy generation is very stable, which is precisely why itĺs called BASELOAD ENERGY.

When wind and solar came onto the picture, the Renewable Energy Aficionados thought this ôCLEAN GREEN ENERGYö was going to get rid of the dirty fossil fuel power plants. Unfortunately, the more wind and solar that are added, the more BASELOAD energy has to be removed.  Why is that unfortunate?  Because when the wind stops blowing and the sun stops shining, then the Electric Utility Industry is forced to TURN ON the Natural Gas Power Plants to make up the difference.
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2020, 08:33:49 AM »

The baseload issue is why they're talking about things like huge battery banks, fuel cells, etc., to make up for the decrease.

Fuel cells aren't there yet to do what needs to be done, but I keep hoping that there will be a break through.

Batteries? Can you imagine how *expletive deleted*ing huge a battery bank would need to be to provide any sort of baseload backup? And how freaking environmental abusive those things would be?
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2020, 08:40:42 AM »


Fuel cells aren't there yet to do what needs to be done, but I keep hoping that there will be a break through.

Tell me about it. I had high hopes and invested in FCEL around ten years ago.  I guess I'm going down with the ship.
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bedlamite
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2020, 08:44:09 AM »

The best large scale battery system currently is using intermittent power to pump water to a higher reservoir, and releasing it through turbines to provide continuous power.
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2020, 08:47:42 AM »

Batteries? Can you imagine how *expletive deleted*ing huge a battery bank would need to be to provide any sort of baseload backup? And how freaking environmental abusive those things would be?

This is why my argument has always been that solar works as a non-distributed energy source. That way you can size it to the individual need and not require huge amounts of reserve for distributed power issues like heat waves and AC use.

If the enviros would have just been sensible and instead of shoving everything down our throats, they might have been able to sell things like solar tie-ins to homes many years ago. I'd be curious on just how much fossil fuel could be saved if a large portion of the US population had just 2-3 300 watt solar panels on their roofs to augment grid power. A lot more people can afford a couple grand to install a few panels than 20-30 grand for a 5-8KW system.
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MechAg94
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2020, 09:27:06 AM »

This is why my argument has always been that solar works as a non-distributed energy source. That way you can size it to the individual need and not require huge amounts of reserve for distributed power issues like heat waves and AC use.

If the enviros would have just been sensible and instead of shoving everything down our throats, they might have been able to sell things like solar tie-ins to homes many years ago. I'd be curious on just how much fossil fuel could be saved if a large portion of the US population had just 2-3 300 watt solar panels on their roofs to augment grid power. A lot more people can afford a couple grand to install a few panels than 20-30 grand for a 5-8KW system.
Considering all the money that has been wasted on different boondoggles, federal funds to install solar cells on roofs of new homes would at least provide a small amount of benefit. 

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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2020, 09:29:33 AM »

The article said the 7 MW wind turbine had blades that would last 15 to 20 years.  That is pretty good.  And the blades are just one of the bigger items.  

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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2020, 09:43:39 AM »

I don't know why they can't just grind the used blades and use the fiber in road concrete. There is a county near mine that their landfill will take the blades, I see the trucks hauling cut up blades quite regularly. Also hauling new blades in is quite impressive to see on a semi trailer or railcar. 
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2020, 03:15:02 PM »

The baseload issue is why they're talking about things like huge battery banks, fuel cells, etc., to make up for the decrease.

Fuel cells aren't there yet to do what needs to be done, but I keep hoping that there will be a break through.

Batteries? Can you imagine how *expletive deleted*ing huge a battery bank would need to be to provide any sort of baseload backup? And how freaking environmental abusive those things would be?

Think we need alternate batteries. Near me is a pumped storage station that was built in the 70s. They use grid electric in off peak to pump water to an upper lake. During peak load they release the water through turbines in tunnels in a mountain to a lower lake. Renewables would make the most sense to me if you just had them constantly pumping water uphill. Whatever they do, they do. Balance the load by how much you run the turbines.
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2020, 03:33:23 PM »

. . . Batteries? Can you imagine how *expletive deleted*ing huge a battery bank would need to be to provide any sort of baseload backup? And how freaking environmental abusive those things would be?
Can you imagine the size of the fire if when a lithium ion battery bank the size of a major sports stadium malfunctions and ignites?
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2020, 03:41:26 PM »

^^^Well, it is in the Australian outback, so maybe it won't be a big deal:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-19/sa-big-battery-set-to-get-even-bigger/11716784

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/huge-tesla-battery-in-south-australia-primed-for-big-upgrade-20191119-p53byo.html
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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2020, 08:01:21 PM »

I don't know why they can't just grind the used blades and use the fiber in road concrete. There is a county near mine that their landfill will take the blades, I see the trucks hauling cut up blades quite regularly. Also hauling new blades in is quite impressive to see on a semi trailer or railcar. 

The equipment required to grind something that huge is too expensive to be viable.  Plus there's probably a lot of steel in them that would be really rough on anything meant to grind up fiberglass.
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« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2020, 08:48:24 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzb6zDFg3WQ
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« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2020, 09:32:42 PM »


Doubt the one that shredded the car could handle the big wind turbine blades.  But even if it could, it would be hard to justify using it.  When you shred a car you get $200+/ton scrap metal.  When you shred a turbine blade you get concrete filler you probably have to pay someone to take.
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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2020, 10:58:04 AM »

The equipment required to grind something that huge is too expensive to be viable.  Plus there's probably a lot of steel in them that would be really rough on anything meant to grind up fiberglass.

I believe the only steel in them are when they bolt to the hub.
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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2020, 11:15:15 AM »

Doubt the one that shredded the car could handle the big wind turbine blades.  But even if it could, it would be hard to justify using it.  When you shred a car you get $200+/ton scrap metal.  When you shred a turbine blade you get concrete filler you probably have to pay someone to take.
Maybe a movie deal?

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« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2020, 04:59:15 PM »

Even if they are no good for turbines maybe they don't need to be ground up.

They could be sunk and used as pilings or artificial reefs.

There are probably other creative structural uses for them.

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« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2020, 11:06:42 AM »

Even if they are no good for turbines maybe they don't need to be ground up.

They could be sunk and used as pilings or artificial reefs.

There are probably other creative structural uses for them.


I really doubt the owners would want to absorb the cost of shipping them back to the coast. 

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« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2020, 11:08:47 AM »

Doubt the one that shredded the car could handle the big wind turbine blades.  But even if it could, it would be hard to justify using it.  When you shred a car you get $200+/ton scrap metal.  When you shred a turbine blade you get concrete filler you probably have to pay someone to take.

It seems to me that someone could come up with something portable that could be hauled out to the wind turbine site, grind or cut up the blades, dump the pieces in bins, then move on to the next site. 
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« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2020, 11:21:14 AM »

It seems to me that someone could come up with something portable that could be hauled out to the wind turbine site, grind or cut up the blades, dump the pieces in bins, then move on to the next site. 

There is a small company attempting to do that, well google search said so anyways. Their end game is to have a product that can be used in other things.
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« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2020, 11:24:39 AM »

It seems to me that someone could come up with something portable that could be hauled out to the wind turbine site, grind or cut up the blades, dump the pieces in bins, then move on to the next site. 

The trick is to have such a machine able to be moved to where it's needed and operated profitably at a price lower than the cost of landfill disposal.
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« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2020, 07:41:56 AM »

Weird how environmentalists are so quick to ban something innocuous like straws, but turn a blind eye to the environmental blight of wind turbines.
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