Author Topic: The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail  (Read 2838 times)

cordex

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« on: January 15, 2020, 11:45:34 AM »
Bernie is a bad candidate for his avowed policies, not because a supporter is a loon with fantasies of violent revolution. Unless Bernie and this goon were chatting policy or something I’m inclined to pass this off as nutpicking. If we found a low key Nazi working some local job at the Trump campaign I wouldn’t think Trump was a Nazi.

HankB

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2020, 11:49:27 AM »
Bernie is a bad candidate for his avowed policies, not because a supporter is a loon with fantasies of violent revolution. Unless Bernie and this goon were chatting policy or something I’m inclined to pass this off as nutpicking. If we found a low key Nazi working some local job at the Trump campaign I wouldn’t think Trump was a Nazi.
Generally agree, but now that the story has become public, it begs the question - is the guy STILL working for Bernie, or has he resigned/been fired?
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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Ron

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2020, 11:56:26 AM »
Bernie is a bad candidate for his avowed policies, not because a supporter is a loon with fantasies of violent revolution. Unless Bernie and this goon were chatting policy or something I’m inclined to pass this off as nutpicking. If we found a low key Nazi working some local job at the Trump campaign I wouldn’t think Trump was a Nazi.

Stop leaving rhetorical clubs on the ground instead of picking them up and using them to beat your opponent.

The overwhelming percentage of voters are not moved or motivated by rational discourse or dialectic.

Not using this to damage Bernie is an unforced error.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

cordex

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2020, 12:04:23 PM »
Generally agree, but now that the story has become public, it begs the question - is the guy STILL working for Bernie, or has he resigned/been fired?
As far as I know this just came out, so I'll give them a little time.  But yeah if Bernie says: "This fella represents the best of us, and our campaign stands behind his violent rhetoric," then I'll certainly change my tune.

Stop leaving rhetorical clubs on the ground instead of using it to beat your opponent.

The overwhelming percentage of voters are not moved or motivated by rational discourse or dialectic.

Not using this to damage Bernie is an unforced error.
I know, I know.  Anyone who doesn't play as dirty and dishonestly as some on the other side, or anyone who dares to have principles that they apply uniformly are ineffectual *let's not go there* on the so called right who can't call themselves conservatives because they have conserved nothing.  That about right?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 12:37:48 PM by cordex »

MechAg94

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2020, 12:17:02 PM »
I wouldn't expect Bernie Sanders to support the guy.  Even if he thought the Gulags were a good idea he wouldn't say so publicly.  However, when it comes to authoritarian Leftists, they generally don't accept the fact that everyone won't agree with them.  So then what?
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K Frame

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2020, 12:36:23 PM »
Generally agree, but now that the story has become public, it begs the question - is the guy STILL working for Bernie, or has he resigned/been fired?


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Ron

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2020, 12:53:10 PM »
As far as I know this just came out, so I'll give them a little time.  But yeah if Bernie says: "This fella represents the best of us, and our campaign stands behind his violent rhetoric," then I'll certainly change my tune.
I know, I know.  Anyone who doesn't play as dirty and dishonestly as some on the other side, or anyone who dares to have principles that they apply uniformly are ineffectual *let's not go there* on the so called right who can't call themselves conservatives because they have conserved nothing.  That about right?

There is nothing dirty or dishonest about revealing that he attracts communists as well as employs them.

It's not dirty, it's a friggin lay-up.

Stop giving the enemy the benefit if the doubt.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

cordex

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2020, 01:13:33 PM »
There is nothing dirty or dishonest about revealing that he attracts communists as well as employs them.
It is dishonest to claim that the nuttiest fringe of a group represent the whole.  It is dishonest and dirty when they do it, and it is dishonest and dirty when you do it.  Bernie is plenty nutty to label himself through his own words and actions.

Stop giving the enemy the benefit if the doubt.
How about you stop behaving like the enemy?

Perd Hapley

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2020, 01:54:32 PM »
Stop leaving rhetorical clubs on the ground instead of picking them up and using them to beat your opponent.

The overwhelming percentage of voters are not moved or motivated by rational discourse or dialectic.

Not using this to damage Bernie is an unforced error.

Correct. How does anyone disagree with this?

It's entirely possible to hang both Sanders' policies and his unhinged hangers-on about his neck. Plus, you reach more people. A lot of people will just tune out the boring policy discussions.
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cordex

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2020, 02:56:02 PM »
Correct. How does anyone disagree with this?

It's entirely possible to hang both Sanders' policies and his unhinged hangers-on about his neck. Plus, you reach more people. A lot of people will just tune out the boring policy discussions.
Okay.  So does Trump get to answer for all of his nuttiest supporters? 

makattak

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2020, 02:59:31 PM »
Okay.  So does Trump get to answer for all of his nuttiest supporters? 

If they are working for and paid by him, sure.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

cordex

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2020, 03:04:27 PM »
If they are working for and paid by him, sure.
Are you sure you want to set the bar there?

Ron

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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2020, 03:08:07 PM »
Okay.  So does Trump get to answer for all of his nuttiest supporters? 

And that would be different from what has been going on since he got in the race how?
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

makattak

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2020, 03:10:43 PM »
Are you sure you want to set the bar there?

Yes, I think any politician should account for the views that the paid employees of his campaign spout.

That doesn't mean that I automatically assume he holds those same views, but it seems a pretty low bar, given how schools/churches/businesses are usually judged by what their employees say.

You think that if a 21 year old NRA employee started spouting off publicly about how minorities are the problem and we need to put them all in cages, he would not be fired forthwith and his views completely disavowed by the NRA?
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

cordex

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2020, 03:54:57 PM »
First off, this is Project Veritas, and they're pretty good at what they do and how they release stuff.  I'm hoping that after Bernie reacts they'll release another video showing the rot going higher.  That said, I'm going to address this based on what we know now.

And that would be different from what has been going on since he got in the race how?
Yeah, kind of my point.  Oh wait, are you defending the MSM because you think that is a fair and righteous tactic?

Yes, I think any politician should account for the views that the paid employees of his campaign spout.

That doesn't mean that I automatically assume he holds those same views, but it seems a pretty low bar, given how schools/churches/businesses are usually judged by what their employees say.

You think that if a 21 year old NRA employee started spouting off publicly about how minorities are the problem and we need to put them all in cages, he would not be fired forthwith and his views completely disavowed by the NRA?
Let's take that example, but make it even closer to this situation.  The young NRA employee spouted off racist crap but not in public - in private but secretly on camera.  He's obviously going to be quickly fired.  Would that make all NRA employees racist?  Would that make NRA supporters racist?  Would that be an indication that the Second Amendment tends to attract racist jerks?  Would it be a condemnation of all people who support the causes that the NRA supports?  Would that make candidates supported by the NRA racist?  Would that make you racist?  How far does the taint of a bad personal belief go?  Yea unto the seventh generation?

Just looking at people related to his campaign I have no doubt we could find some jerks.  Let's say one comes to light and gets fired ... what does that say about Trump?  Would you vote for someone else if that were to happen?

From a pragmatic standpoint you guys might be right.  Maybe it would be more effective to lie to people and tell them that Bernie wants to put people against the wall and shoot them because that is what this supporter wants.  I think more likely you'll convince a few not real bright people, get patted on the back by people who already agree with you, and provide evidence to people who disagree with you that you're dishonest.  I've seen so many blatantly dishonest "news" stories that I have trouble putting much faith in most reporting these days.  Push too many lies and people are likely to start to see you in the same way.

Perd Hapley

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2020, 04:23:45 PM »
Okay.  So does Trump get to answer for all of his nuttiest supporters?  


The comparison seems (to me) dangerously naïve. Sanders, unlike Trump, has spent a lifetime espousing the kind of authoritarian, socialist policies that have a history of resulting in exactly what his underling was calling for. What would be a comparable policy goal for Trump and his supporters? I very much doubt there are any.

Also, we have no reason to think this was Sanders’ nuttiest supporter.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 05:21:19 PM by fistful »
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makattak

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2020, 04:29:09 PM »
Let's take that example, but make it even closer to this situation.  The young NRA employee spouted off racist crap but not in public - in private but secretly on camera.  He's obviously going to be quickly fired.  Would that make all NRA employees racist?  Would that make NRA supporters racist?  Would that be an indication that the Second Amendment tends to attract racist jerks?  Would it be a condemnation of all people who support the causes that the NRA supports?  Would that make candidates supported by the NRA racist?  Would that make you racist?  How far does the taint of a bad personal belief go?  Yea unto the seventh generation?

As a counter-point: Where is any story announcing the violence-loving, mass-murder day-dreaming anarcho-communist been fired?

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=kyle+jurek+fired

Funny how I don't find a SINGLE story stating he was fired. I'd kind of think that should be job #1 if you're going to claim his views don't represent yours.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Perd Hapley

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2020, 04:33:20 PM »
From a pragmatic standpoint you guys might be right.  Maybe it would be more effective to lie to people and tell them that Bernie wants to put people against the wall and shoot them because that is what this supporter wants.  I think more likely you'll convince a few not real bright people, get patted on the back by people who already agree with you, and provide evidence to people who disagree with you that you're dishonest.  I've seen so many blatantly dishonest "news" stories that I have trouble putting much faith in most reporting these days.  Push too many lies and people are likely to start to see you in the same way.

Um, how is it dishonest to draw attention to a political extremist, of an extremist party, within a political extremist’s campaign organization? ???

That you disagree with the tactic I get, but you can't call it dishonest.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 05:20:56 PM by fistful »
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Ron

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« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2020, 04:37:13 PM »
I'm still waiting for the mainstream media to ask Bernie if he has knowingly hired revolutionary communists or antifa members.

Shouldn't he have to disavow this guy and all revolutionary communists?

Isn't it the peoples right to know 😉


Trump had to disavow white supremacy, white nationalism, the KKK multiple times.


« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 07:01:28 PM by Ron »
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

MechAg94

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2020, 05:34:33 PM »

The comparison seems (to me) dangerously naïve. Sanders, unlike Trump, has spent a lifetime espousing the kind of authoritarian, socialist policies that have a history of resulting in exactly what his underling was calling for. What would be a comparable policy goal for Trump and his supporters? I very much doubt there are any.

Also, we have no reason to think this was Sanders’ nuttiest supporter.

That is a point.  Most are assuming this is that guy, but I doubt it.  Bernie himself is a leftist extremist so he will tend to attract those people.
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Perd Hapley

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2020, 07:25:33 PM »
"...leftist extremist..." But you repeat yourself.
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RocketMan

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2020, 07:57:10 PM »
It's not just one nut case, apparently.  Project Veritas said on Sean Hannity's radio show today that there will be more drops in the coming days of additional Sanders campaign workers making similar statements.
Fun times ahead, I think.   [popcorn]
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Perd Hapley

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The 2020 Circus - Gulag Derail
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2020, 09:45:36 PM »
It's not just one nut case, apparently.  Project Veritas said on Sean Hannity's radio show today that there will be more drops in the coming days of additional Sanders campaign workers making similar statements.
Fun times ahead, I think.   [popcorn]

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Perd Hapley

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« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2020, 11:40:46 PM »
First off, this is Project Veritas, and they're pretty good at what they do and how they release stuff.  I'm hoping that after Bernie reacts they'll release another video showing the rot going higher.  

Here's that next video.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/bernie-campaign-staff-bernies-a-legit-socialist-masquerading-as-a-democratic-socialist
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