Author Topic: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread  (Read 440328 times)

Brad Johnson

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3750 on: August 03, 2020, 10:30:39 AM »
Visited some of SWMBO's extended family over the weekend. Got these three gems to illustrate how out of kilter the numbers probably are. All are from persons with first-hand knowledge.

1. Person was a double-lung transplant. Strict isolation protocols, both hospital and home. Recovering well, everyone being super-cautious about contact. Person was in better-than-expected health, improving at a rapid pace, and ahead of all expectations. Simply didn't wake up one morning. All indications pointed to a clot-related pulmonary or cardiac issue but the family decided to let him rest in peace and forego an autopsy. Hospital district was having none of it and went so far as threatening to take the family to court to force an autopsy. Family did not relent and hospital finally backed down. No autopsy, no postmortem testing. Imagine their surprise when they got the death certificate and Cause of Death was listed as COVID-19 complications. Family has hired an attorney to get some answers.

2. Elderly person in visitation-restricted Hospice care for multiple conditions including significant recent history of stroke and coronary events. Had another massive stroke and passed away within hours. Straightforward death declaration by local Justice of the Peace. No Autopsy. No pre- or postmortem COVID-19 testing. Received the death certificate and, sure enough, cause of death listed as COVID-19. Family is speaking with the State AG via an attorney about bringing up county health officials on charges for falsifying information on a death certificate.

3. Elderly person in assisted living. Developed respiratory issues and passed away within the week. Tested daily for COVID-19. Six tests total, all came back negative. Family physician says everything points to likely an old-fashioned case of the flu and the person was too old and frail to fight it. Listed cause of death? Yep, you guessed it. COVID-19. Family speaking with an attorney to figure out if they need to pursue a lawsuit.

Again, these are first-hand accounts from family members in direct contact with the families involved, not some he-said she-said third-hand "I heard it on Facebook" business. My nature is to have a healthy skepticism of news reports. Now? I straight up don't believe them. Sure, they might be reporting "official" numbers, but when there is a reasonably likelihood those numbers are a overt misrepresentation of fact then I have to presume everything based on them is an outright lie.

Brad
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 12:27:48 PM by Brad Johnson »
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De Selby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3751 on: August 03, 2020, 10:37:01 AM »
I don't know who is involved, but there is enough bad data that I don't know what to trust.  So I think we should just take precautions and move on with our lives. 

It will be interesting to see how the media treats this issue after the election is over.

What precautions should we take? And why?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

De Selby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3752 on: August 03, 2020, 10:39:01 AM »
So, ignore the fact it's all lies, everybody is lying and believes the lies, come join us in believing the lies...

We must ignore the cognitive dissonance we experience when the reality that is observed doesn't match the narrative...

Not believing the "world authorities" means you're crazy and conspiratorial ....

Sorry, I'm not ignoring the lies when they are so blatantly in our faces about telling them.

In the USA at least, as far as I know, every state is reporting dying with Covid-19 as a dying FROM Covid-19.

As mentioned in an above post, even the simple defining line between active infection and those who test positive for antibodies is being conflated.

Remember the old saying? Garbage in Garbage out?

The numbers reported are garbage, so the stats are garbage and the decisions made on the garbage are garbage.

No amount of rhetoric changes reality.



 

Am I to take this that you mean to say the idea of a world health authority conspiracy is really sensible? Like are you ridiculing me for laughing at that idea, or was this meant to be an earnest explanation of how all the disparate medical authorities in the world independently arrived at the same fake COVID scare?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

De Selby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3753 on: August 03, 2020, 10:41:28 AM »
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt: I've never said that.

My analysis is through tracking the virus effects through several states, countries and even the Diamond Princess (cruise ship).

I doubt the estimation of the CDC based on studies I have read from other countries and from our own, which is why I weight the analysis less from our own government- I have judged they are mistaken.

And, honestly, I chose Switzerland because I searched for "Coronavirus death rate by age" and that was literally the first link that popped up. I don't think Switzerland likely has it completely correct, either, but is likely much closer to the real numbers (which may be higher than what that study published, but still likely comparable to flu numbers for people not at risk due to age and comorbidities.)

So it was just chance that Switzerland was one of the few countries on earth that fit your narrative and just google chance made it first? And that also explains why you hot linked graphics and had to ignore half of the other picture you linked?

Hahaha, sure bro. I guess Pollyanna would buy that hahahshs
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Ron

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3754 on: August 03, 2020, 10:59:44 AM »
Am I to take this that you mean to say the idea of a world health authority conspiracy is really sensible? Like are you ridiculing me for laughing at that idea, or was this meant to be an earnest explanation of how all the disparate medical authorities in the world independently arrived at the same fake COVID scare?

It has nothing to do with conspiracies as I have no information other than what is reported.

What it does have to do with is that I am listening, watching and observing what the authorities say, the actions they take, the way they behave, I notice things. Those things I notice can no longer be explained away. They no longer get the benefit of the doubt. Not only are so many institutions lying to us they are on record telling us they are lying to us.

They don't get the benefit of the doubt. Liars don't get the benefit of the doubt.



For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Ron

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3755 on: August 03, 2020, 11:14:17 AM »
I don't know who is involved, but there is enough bad data that I don't know what to trust.  So I think we should just take precautions and move on with our lives.  

It will be interesting to see how the media treats this issue after the election is over.

Pretty much been my position.

What do I actually really know?

This virus exists.

It can be a rough ride or deadly for a very small percentage of the population.

It spreads not unlike the flu, so precautions that work to protect you from the flu will help against this virus as well as help stop/slow its spread.

Governments, healthcare institutions, global authorities are lying to us and their motivations for doing so are not immediately apparent (I'm being generous).
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

WLJ

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3756 on: August 03, 2020, 11:40:13 AM »
Someone needs to conjure up a new crisis. This Covid thing is getting old, boring, and convoluted.

Woody

How about a race war? Oh wait, you said new
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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3759 on: August 03, 2020, 12:40:36 PM »
So I think I haven't been inside the post office since this COVID thing started, but was there this morning. I would have expected that fed.gov (yes, I know USPS is .com, but still) has mandatory mask regs for at a minimum, their employees. Nobody in my local office was wearing one. Admittedly it's a podunk sized post office, but it was interesting that the employees were likely shunning a mask reg.
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MechAg94

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3760 on: August 03, 2020, 12:41:00 PM »
What precautions should we take? And why?

Well, if the flu is going around, we would take precautions with personal hygiene and keeping ourselves and our stuff clean.  If someone is particularly susceptible to it they might do more.  That is reasonable.  The social distancing isn't so bad as I like to have my space anyway.

I question the mask stuff to a point since I have seen video and reports of so many people who are pushing this stuff take their masks off as soon as they think they are not on video anymore.  So not sure about masks.  I wear one since my employer and local businesses ask me to wear one.  

There have been so many conflicting reports on the attributes of COVID-19 that I am not sure what to think about it beyond that.
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K Frame

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3761 on: August 03, 2020, 01:22:47 PM »
I've not been in a post office since... middle of 2018? Mailing crap for my Mom's estate. No real need to go into a post office, either.
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DittoHead

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3762 on: August 03, 2020, 02:24:50 PM »
Deaths are an easy thing to focus on (and should be relatively easy to count), but it's not the whole picture either.
In a multistate telephone survey of symptomatic adults who had a positive outpatient test result for SARS-CoV-2 infection, 35% had not returned to their usual state of health when interviewed 2–3 weeks after testing. Among persons aged 18–34 years with no chronic medical conditions, one in five had not returned to their usual state of health.
There are reports of long lasting organ damage, significant blood clotting issues, and who knows what else might show up later on? What if it does something like shingles but worse?

A JAMA Cardiology study found that in one group of COVID-19 patients in Germany aged 45 to 53, more than 75% suffered from heart inflammation, raising the possibility of future heart failure.

A Kidney International study found that over a third of COVID-19 patients in a New York medical system developed acute kidney injury, and nearly 15% required dialysis.

Dr. Marco Rizzi in Bergamo, Italy, an early epicenter of the pandemic, said the Giovanni XXIII Hospital has seen close to 600 COVID-19 patients for follow-up. About 30% have lung issues, 10% have neurological problems, 10% have heart issues and about 9% have lingering motor skill problems. He co-chairs the WHO panel that will recommend long-term follow-up for patients.
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lee n. field

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3763 on: August 03, 2020, 02:37:20 PM »
Am I to take this that you mean to say the idea of a world health authority conspiracy is really sensible? Like are you ridiculing me for laughing at that idea, or was this meant to be an earnest explanation of how all the disparate medical authorities in the world independently arrived at the same fake COVID scare?

A conspiracy is not necessary.
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MechAg94

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3764 on: August 03, 2020, 02:39:54 PM »
Deaths are an easy thing to focus on (and should be relatively easy to count), but it's not the whole picture either.There are reports of long lasting organ damage, significant blood clotting issues, and who knows what else might show up later on? What if it does something like shingles but worse?

How do you know those reports are any more accurate than other stuff?  Just more anecdotal stuff spreading around.  Until there are some reliable statistics available, it is just fodder for the fear mongers.

On the organ damage, if that is true I wonder how much of that is simply low blood oxygen level or perhaps something in the treatments attempted.  Too many factors involved to take it at face value.
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lee n. field

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3765 on: August 03, 2020, 02:53:22 PM »
So I think I haven't been inside the post office since this COVID thing started, but was there this morning. I would have expected that fed.gov (yes, I know USPS is .com, but still) has mandatory mask regs for at a minimum, their employees. Nobody in my local office was wearing one. Admittedly it's a podunk sized post office, but it was interesting that the employees were likely shunning a mask reg.

Very few businesses around here, except the ones with rules handed down from corporate (Wally World and Aldi), seem to care about masks.
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bedlamite

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3766 on: August 03, 2020, 03:03:27 PM »
We got a statewide mask order starting on August 1 with a $200 fine, and there is a huge list of Sheriffs that said they will not be enforcing it. Some have said they will come to business complaints but not Karen complaints, and some of those have said there will be no citations,
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dogmush

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3767 on: August 03, 2020, 03:08:23 PM »
How do you know those reports are any more accurate than other stuff?  Just more anecdotal stuff spreading around.  Until there are some reliable statistics available, it is just fodder for the fear mongers.

On the organ damage, if that is true I wonder how much of that is simply low blood oxygen level or perhaps something in the treatments attempted.  Too many factors involved to take it at face value.


Quote
At least one telephone call was attempted for 582 patients (including 175 [30%] who were tested in an ED and 407 [70%] in non-ED settings), with 325 (56%) interviews completed (89 [27%] ED and 236 [73%] non-ED). Among 257 nonrespondents, 178 could not be reached, 37 requested a callback but could not be reached on further call attempts, 28 refused the interview, and 14 had a language barrier. Among the 325 completed interviews, 31 were excluded: nine (3%) because a proxy was interviewed, 17 (5%) because a previous positive SARS-CoV-2 test was reported, and five (2%) who did not answer the symptoms questions. Two additional respondents were called prematurely at 7 days and were also excluded.* Among the 292 remaining patient respondents, 274 (94%) reported one or more symptoms at testing and were included in this data analysis. Following outpatient testing, 7% (19 of 262 with available data) reported later being hospitalized, a median of 3.5 days after the test date. The median age of symptomatic respondents was 42.5 years (interquartile range [IQR] = 31–54 years), 142 (52%) were female, 98 (36%) were Hispanic, 96 (35%) were non-Hispanic white, 48 (18%) were non-Hispanic black, and 32 (12%) were other non-Hispanic race. Overall, 141 of 264 (53%) with available data reported one or more chronic medical conditions. The median interval from test to interview date was 16 days (IQR = 14–19 days); the median number of days respondents reported feeling unwell before being tested for SARS-CoV-2 was 3 (IQR = 2–7 days).

The methodology seems pretty sound and in line with random sample testing.  Especially considering the trends we are discussing are pretty statistically significant.  It's not like a 3 or 4% spread where a different sample is likely to be very different.

On the organ damage, does it matter?  If you get COVID and get treated and O2 deprivation, COVID, or something the doctors do damages your organs, you (and the not small number of patients) still have damaged organs to live with, caused by getting a disease.  It's important to ID the cause for the next folks, especially if it's a result of a treatment, but I don't see how it really matters to the person with organ damage.

There is growing, real evidence that COVID-19 can frequently have long * medium term health effects on the folks it doesn't kill.  That is absolutely something to add to your risk analysis and decision making.

*Long term is still unwritten at this point.

De Selby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3768 on: August 03, 2020, 03:17:57 PM »
Well, if the flu is going around, we would take precautions with personal hygiene and keeping ourselves and our stuff clean.  If someone is particularly susceptible to it they might do more.  That is reasonable.  The social distancing isn't so bad as I like to have my space anyway.

I question the mask stuff to a point since I have seen video and reports of so many people who are pushing this stuff take their masks off as soon as they think they are not on video anymore.  So not sure about masks.  I wear one since my employer and local businesses ask me to wear one.  

There have been so many conflicting reports on the attributes of COVID-19 that I am not sure what to think about it beyond that.

Would you support taking the same measures that have been used to reduce the impact of coronavirus disease on livestock?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

zxcvbob

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3769 on: August 03, 2020, 03:47:10 PM »
Would you support taking the same measures that have been used to reduce the impact of coronavirus disease on livestock?

What is that, destroy the herd?
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K Frame

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3770 on: August 03, 2020, 03:54:52 PM »
What is that, destroy the herd?

Well, these days it seems that most people are dumber than your average cow...
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3771 on: August 03, 2020, 03:56:44 PM »
What is that, destroy the herd?

The democrats and other elite statist types sure seem to be driving to the "destroy the herd" method but in reality it isn't that bad with cattle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_coronavirus
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De Selby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3772 on: August 03, 2020, 04:13:03 PM »
What is that, destroy the herd?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/coronavirus-spread-through-us-pigs-in-2013-heres-how-it-was-stopped-180974646/

Quarantine and hygiene - ie what most countries who have managed to prevent mass infection did
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Ron

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3773 on: August 03, 2020, 04:23:37 PM »
Quarantine the sick or the healthy?

Regarding hygiene a lot of folks where I work don't want the alcohol, virex, gloves and plexiglass register shields to go away.

Considering how strains of flu and colds rip through retail environments it probably is a worthwhile investment just to keep the staff healthy during flu season.  
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3774 on: August 03, 2020, 04:42:10 PM »
Quarantine and hygiene - ie what most countries who have managed to prevent mass infection did
To be fair, this is also what many countries who failed to prevent mass infection did.
Also, “prevention” is - at this stage anyway - a temporary delay. Not a permanent solution.