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Author Topic: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread  (Read 84711 times)
RocketMan
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« Reply #3725 on: August 01, 2020, 08:08:10 AM »

No, there is no economic incentive for hospitals to inflate their COVID-19 case counts.   Face Palm!

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/07/31/cdc-chief-agrees-theres-perverse-economic-incentive-for-hospitals-to-inflate-coronavirus-deaths/?utm_source=whatfinger
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Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

How many Democrats does it take to fix a problem?  No one knows because it's never happened.
fistful
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« Reply #3726 on: August 01, 2020, 03:08:52 PM »



 laugh
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Angel Eyes
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« Reply #3727 on: August 01, 2020, 09:06:31 PM »

.
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De Selby
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« Reply #3728 on: August 01, 2020, 10:25:47 PM »

I had in mind that someone here keeps claiming that others are using their Facebook friends as sources. Trouble is, no one seems to have cited their "mates," and even if they did, so what?

Before he decided Switzerlandĺs statistics were his source, Mak was saying he judged covid risk based on personal stories sent to him by emergency and health care workers. Thatĺs what I was referring to.

Lots of questioning of the data or pointing out that profit motives may not produce the best health advice - but no real alternative sources of info for judging covid risk seem to be emerging.
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Ron
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« Reply #3729 on: August 02, 2020, 03:40:32 AM »

Before he decided Switzerlandĺs statistics were his source, Mak was saying he judged covid risk based on personal stories sent to him by emergency and health care workers. Thatĺs what I was referring to.

Lots of questioning of the data or pointing out that profit motives may not produce the best health advice - but no real alternative sources of info for judging covid risk seem to be emerging.

So we have no alternative sources of info other than state authorities reporting to the CDC.

The data the states are reporting are all BS though. They don't even hide the fact they are manipulating the data to drive up both deaths and cases in the reporting.

So is your position we must believe the liars in the states and fed gov because there isn't an alternative source of data?


  

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MechAg94
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« Reply #3730 on: August 02, 2020, 09:25:01 AM »

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ConstitutionCowboy
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« Reply #3731 on: August 02, 2020, 02:59:46 PM »



Slow the spread to prolong the inevitable. I'll just hide and watch.  Popcorn

Woody  Grumpy Old Man
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De Selby
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« Reply #3732 on: August 02, 2020, 04:59:38 PM »

So we have no alternative sources of info other than state authorities reporting to the CDC.

The data the states are reporting are all BS though. They don't even hide the fact they are manipulating the data to drive up both deaths and cases in the reporting.

So is your position we must believe the liars in the states and fed gov because there isn't an alternative source of data?


  



My position is, we should make some estimation of risk and therefore responses to COVID based on data.

If you think all the data is bs, how can you offer any opinion at all about response measures? Unless you have some data that reliably informs you it is all an overestimate...in which case, letĺs see it.

Theyĺre not perfect, but I do think global health authorities and the CDC are probably better placed to offer meaningful data and advice on COVID risks than the stories of paramedic or teacher friends relayed firsthand.

I think the data produced by doctors and infectious disease experts is likely to offer a better health response to pandemics.

 
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Andiron
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« Reply #3733 on: August 02, 2020, 05:30:01 PM »

My position is, we should make some estimation of risk and therefore responses to COVID based on data.

If you think all the data is bs, how can you offer any opinion at all about response measures? Unless you have some data that reliably informs you it is all an overestimate...in which case, letĺs see it.

Theyĺre not perfect, but I do think global health authorities and the CDC are probably better placed to offer meaningful data and advice on COVID risks than the stories of paramedic or teacher friends relayed firsthand.

I think the data produced by doctors and infectious disease experts is likely to offer a better health response to pandemics.

 

You're the embodiment of the ALCU on this board.  The "Official sources" are the word of the prophet,  just so long as they don't clash with the point you're trying to make.

What's next?  Racism as a public health crisis?  I hear that's in fashion too.
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De Selby
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« Reply #3734 on: August 02, 2020, 05:32:27 PM »

You're the embodiment of the ALCU on this board.  The "Official sources" are the word of the prophet,  just so long as they don't clash with the point you're trying to make.

What's next?  Racism as a public health crisis?  I hear that's in fashion too.

How rational is that - all I said is responses to communicable disease should be based on medical and infectious disease expert information, which even if not perfect, is likely to be better than whatever else youĺre reading.

Your response to that is to talk about racism and culture wars. Thatĺs telling - COVID isnĺt actually about the science for you, is it? Itĺs also a real disease - not a fashion.  There were people (still are) who denied HIV existed or that it caused AIDS too. Thatĺs the sort of tinfoil hattery that causes pandemics to kill and maim more people than otherwise might be the case.
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"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."
Ron
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« Reply #3735 on: August 02, 2020, 05:37:46 PM »

My position is, we should make some estimation of risk and therefore responses to COVID based on data.

If you think all the data is bs, how can you offer any opinion at all about response measures? Unless you have some data that reliably informs you it is all an overestimate...in which case, letĺs see it.

Theyĺre not perfect, but I do think global health authorities and the CDC are probably better placed to offer meaningful data and advice on COVID risks than the stories of paramedic or teacher friends relayed firsthand.

I think the data produced by doctors and infectious disease experts is likely to offer a better health response to pandemics.

There is no good information, it's all political power plays and propaganda.

They've been wrong AND they've lied.

Global health authorities?

Global Health Authorities

I think where we go our separate ways is your acceptance of these institutions as being non ideological, benevolent and without an agenda.
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De Selby
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« Reply #3736 on: August 02, 2020, 05:45:36 PM »

There is no good information, it's all political power plays and propaganda.

They've been wrong AND they've lied.

Global health authorities?

Global Health Authorities

I think where we go our separate ways is your acceptance of these institutions as being non ideological, benevolent and without an agenda.


So the entire worldĺs public health experts are in on the same conspiracy? And even in systems where it is in fact bad for government to inflate numbers and the cost pressures clearly incentivise downplaying, they arrive at the same conspiracy as the CDC?

At some level youĺve got to be able to see that non specific declarations of ôthey liedö are tinfoil level thinking.

Did they also jointly produce the chemtrail planes?Huh?  grin
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"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."
Andiron
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« Reply #3737 on: August 02, 2020, 05:49:19 PM »

How rational is that - all I said is responses to communicable disease should be based on medical and infectious disease expert information, which even if not perfect, is likely to be better than whatever else youĺre reading.

Your response to that is to talk about racism and culture wars. Thatĺs telling - COVID isnĺt actually about the science for you, is it? Itĺs also a real disease - not a fashion.  There were people (still are) who denied HIV existed or that it caused AIDS too. Thatĺs the sort of tinfoil hattery that causes pandemics to kill and maim more people than otherwise might be the case.

I'm obliquely referencing your continued bullshit with regards to the Zimmerman case.
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De Selby
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« Reply #3738 on: August 02, 2020, 06:45:34 PM »

I'm obliquely referencing your continued bullshit with regards to the Zimmerman case.

So the CDC is lying because theyĺre part of the conspiracy to frame George Zimmerman? Or is there some other theory of relevance Zimmerman has to COVID and the CDC?
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"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."
Andiron
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« Reply #3739 on: August 02, 2020, 06:50:42 PM »

So the CDC is lying because theyĺre part of the conspiracy to frame George Zimmerman? Or is there some other theory of relevance Zimmerman has to COVID and the CDC?

You never argue in good faith.  It's always some form of trolling.  Be gone, already.
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #3740 on: August 02, 2020, 07:02:20 PM »


I think the data produced by doctors and infectious disease experts is likely to offer a better health response to pandemics.
 

Unfortunately, the data aren't being produced by doctors and infectious disease experts. The data are being produced by hacks, bureaucrats, and political appointees.

Case in point: I don't have the list of which states, but it has been reported widely enough to be credible that some states are reporting positive antibodies test results (which show that the person had the coronavirus at some time in the past) with positive nasal swab tests (which test for having the disease now).

Case in point: It has been reported widely enough to probably be credible that some states' medical directors are reporting all deaths of people who test positive (either before death or posthumously) as being coronavirus deaths -- whether that's what the person actually died of or not.

Case in point: since early March, my state's governor's office has posted a daily update with numbers of new cases, total number of positive tests, numbers of hospitalizations, and numbers of deaths. I started tracking these reports as of March 1. The state reported the first case on March 8. I check the report daily, print it out and put the print in a 3-ring binder, and log the numbers on a spreadsheet. A funny thing happened on May 3. On May 3, with no explanation, the total number of positive tests reported suddenly was off by 25 from what the total should have been by adding the new cases to the total from the day before. Same thing with deaths: also on May 3, all of a sudden the total number of deaths reported was off by 59 from what the state's own numbers add up to.

Case in point: The woman in Florida who was in charge of generating that state's daily report was fired because she declined to fudge the numbers. I don't remember the specifics, but you can find the story without much trouble if you want to read about it.

There is no good answer. We know the numbers are bogus, but we don't know how far off they are, or in which direction. For all we know, some states may be fudging the numbers higher while other states may be fudging the numbers lower. My view is that I'm pretty certain (heck, I have proof) that my state is fudging the numbers, but as long as they fudge them the same way every day I can still look at the numbers to see if they're trending up or down. They were trending down until about ten days ago; now they're trending up again (but very slightly).
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Jim147
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« Reply #3741 on: August 02, 2020, 08:57:57 PM »

Pick a state and you can probably find that they have had problems with the numbers. Like this one.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbaumann/2020/08/01/why-one-state-had-to-correct-its-wuhan-coronavirus-death-toll-numbers-n2573546
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makattak
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« Reply #3742 on: August 03, 2020, 04:48:01 AM »

Before he decided Switzerlandĺs statistics were his source, Mak was saying he judged covid risk based on personal stories sent to him by emergency and health care workers. Thatĺs what I was referring to.

Lots of questioning of the data or pointing out that profit motives may not produce the best health advice - but no real alternative sources of info for judging covid risk seem to be emerging.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt: I've never said that.

My analysis is through tracking the virus effects through several states, countries and even the Diamond Princess (cruise ship).

I doubt the estimation of the CDC based on studies I have read from other countries and from our own, which is why I weight the analysis less from our own government- I have judged they are mistaken.

And, honestly, I chose Switzerland because I searched for "Coronavirus death rate by age" and that was literally the first link that popped up. I don't think Switzerland likely has it completely correct, either, but is likely much closer to the real numbers (which may be higher than what that study published, but still likely comparable to flu numbers for people not at risk due to age and comorbidities.)
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« Reply #3743 on: August 03, 2020, 05:03:33 AM »

So the entire worldĺs public health experts are in on the same conspiracy? And even in systems where it is in fact bad for government to inflate numbers and the cost pressures clearly incentivise downplaying, they arrive at the same conspiracy as the CDC?

At some level youĺve got to be able to see that non specific declarations of ôthey liedö are tinfoil level thinking.

Did they also jointly produce the chemtrail planes?Huh?  grin


So, ignore the fact it's all lies, everybody is lying and believes the lies, come join us in believing the lies...

We must ignore the cognitive dissonance we experience when the reality that is observed doesn't match the narrative...

Not believing the "world authorities" means you're crazy and conspiratorial ....

Sorry, I'm not ignoring the lies when they are so blatantly in our faces about telling them.

In the USA at least, as far as I know, every state is reporting dying with Covid-19 as a dying FROM Covid-19.

As mentioned in an above post, even the simple defining line between active infection and those who test positive for antibodies is being conflated.

Remember the old saying? Garbage in Garbage out?

The numbers reported are garbage, so the stats are garbage and the decisions made on the garbage are garbage.

No amount of rhetoric changes reality.



 
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MechAg94
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« Reply #3744 on: August 03, 2020, 05:47:00 AM »

So the entire worldĺs public health experts are in on the same conspiracy? And even in systems where it is in fact bad for government to inflate numbers and the cost pressures clearly incentivise downplaying, they arrive at the same conspiracy as the CDC?

At some level youĺve got to be able to see that non specific declarations of ôthey liedö are tinfoil level thinking.

Did they also jointly produce the chemtrail planes?Huh?  grin
I don't know who is involved, but there is enough bad data that I don't know what to trust.  So I think we should just take precautions and move on with our lives. 

It will be interesting to see how the media treats this issue after the election is over.
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« Reply #3745 on: August 03, 2020, 06:18:12 AM »

I don't know who is involved, but there is enough bad data that I don't know what to trust.  So I think we should just take precautions and move on with our lives. 

It will be interesting to see how the media treats this issue after the election is over.

The pandemic will immediately end once Biden is sworn in.

Just like all anti-war demonstrations immediately ended once Obama was sworn in.
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #3746 on: August 03, 2020, 06:19:49 AM »

"So, ignore the fact it's all lies, everybody is lying and believes the lies, come join us in believing the lies..."

You're FINALLY getting it! 
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ConstitutionCowboy
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« Reply #3747 on: August 03, 2020, 06:22:11 AM »

Someone needs to conjure up a new crisis. This Covid thing is getting old, boring, and convoluted.

Woody
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« Reply #3748 on: August 03, 2020, 06:24:22 AM »

Someone needs to conjure up a new crisis. This Covid thing is getting old, boring, and convoluted.

Woody

How about the entire West Coast seceding from the United States if Trump wins?  grin

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2020/08/03/2020-election-war-game-hypothetical-with-john-podesta-playing-the-part-of-joe-biden-refusing-to-concede-ends-up-with-3-states-threatening-secession/
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« Reply #3749 on: August 03, 2020, 06:26:04 AM »

My company, last week, rolled out a new website for employees to "self assess" whether we should be at work or not.

Basically, have you been diagnosed with the plague, have you been in contact with someone who has the plague, do you have, in the past day or two, any of this list of nonspecific symptoms that could be an indicator of anything ranging from allergies to Ebola...

We have to do that every day. OK, I get it. They're trying to bring staff back to work, and this is just another tool towards that end. Still weird, but not as weird as being in an office building that can easily accommodate upwards 3,000 people and seeing... fewer than a dozen on any given day.
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