Knife attack in Sydney

[JN01]

As dogmush said, choice of weapon, or availability of various options, means fuckalll to likelihood of them happening or even ultimate body count.  The worst one use usa history I'm aware of the perps used box cutters and airplanes.  Excluding Islamic terrorists, the Bath school massacre used explosives, not guns.  There have also been a number of knife attacks in China that killed more than most AR attacks in the USA.

1995 Oklahoma City bombing, 168 killed, 680 injured
1990 Happyland nightclub in NYC, 87 killed using a small can of gas
2016 Nice, France, truck driver plowed into crowd, 86 killed, 458 injured

[sumpnz]

1995 Oklahoma City bombing, 168 killed, 680 injured
1990 Happyland nightclub in NYC, 87 killed using a small can of gas
2016 Nice, France, truck driver plowed into crowd, 86 killed, 458 injured

Yup.  ARs aren't nearly as effective and explosives, incendiaries, or vehicles.

[WLJ]

Bath School disaster, the worse school attack in US history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

[WLJ]

Meanwhile

Terrified parents have fled a Melbourne shopping centre with their children after a bloody fight broke out between a group of machete-wielding youths.

The group clashed inside the Woodgrove Shopping Centre at Melton in Melbourne's north-west at about 5pm on Monday.

Witnesses claim those involved, who were described as teenagers and Sudanese, were armed with a variety of weapons and were seen waving knives and throwing chairs during the melee.

One woman said she fled the centre with her children after spotting a man 'waving a machete around'.

The 16-year-old has been charged with affray, possessing a prohibited weapon and being armed with criminal intent. He is set to face a children's court on Tuesday afternoon.

Police will charge the 15-year-old with affray, possessing a controlled weapon and being armed with criminal intent and then will be directly presented to a children’s court.

Woodgrove shopping centre, Melton: Families flee machete-wielding mob as savage gang fight erupts at suburban shopping centre in fresh outbreak of terrifying violence
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13312579/Woodgrove-shopping-centre-Melton-terrified-mothers-children-flee-mall-machete-wielding-men-bloody-brawl-Westfield-Bondi-Junction-tragedy.html

[WLJ]

And more on the church stabbing

An Assyrian Orthodox Church bishop who was stabbed during a livestreamed church service in Sydney had spoken critically about Islam in a video recorded four months ago.

Bishop Mar Mari Emmanuel was preaching at Christ The Good Shepherd Church in Wakeley in Sydney's west just after 7pm on Monday when a 16-year-old boy walked up to the altar and allegedly stabbed him multiple times.

On a separate video of the aftermath of the alleged terror attack, the boy said in Arabic 'If they didn't insult my prophet, I wouldn't have come here. If he didn't involve himself in my religion, I would not have come here.'

Churchgoers said he also used the Islamic phrase 'Allahu Akbar' repeatedly.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13312597/Sydney-church-stabbing-wakeley-bishop-mar-mari-islam.html

[dogmush]

Yeah, mass casualty events happen at a lower rate for sure. 30 percent of Australians were born overseas, so I’m not sure what you mean by “homogenous” - it’s the democratic institution and government support that seems to keep people relatively well off that I see, not any mysterious features of the culture which is hugely impacted by immigration, much much more so than in the USA.

I said it was a mostly homogenous, high trust culture.  Those Australians that are born overseas but choose to stay and live there adapt to and adopt that culture to a high degree.  You yourself are a prime example, but during my visits I ran into this multiple times across folks of varying ethnicities and religions.  The overwhelmingly accepted culture of Australia leads to less of the tribalism and violence that many places in the world see to greater or lesser degrees.  There are certainly "out" groups in Australia.  Gangs exist, those Sudanese youths from the the story WLJ just posted, probably some Aboriginal groups, but in general, the culture of Australia is remarkably cohesive and homogenous.  Monocultures lead to decreased interpersonal violence almost everywhere they exist.  Japan and New Zealand have similar cultural traits with similar results.  Canada did, but are in the process of splitting into sub cultures.  China does as well, although the enforcement mechanism is *very* different.

[JTHunter]

WLJ - in your post #53, your top quote has this line - "who were described as teenagers and Sudanese" - which explains the machetes.
Those are weapons of terrorism because the damage and blood-letting are of such a magnitude.  Also, from their origin countries, the Sudanese aren't likely to have access to firearms but machetes are easier to make and more available.
They are also quieter than guns.

[De Selby]

I said it was a mostly homogenous, high trust culture.  Those Australians that are born overseas but choose to stay and live there adapt to and adopt that culture to a high degree.  You yourself are a prime example, but during my visits I ran into this multiple times across folks of varying ethnicities and religions.  The overwhelmingly accepted culture of Australia leads to less of the tribalism and violence that many places in the world see to greater or lesser degrees.  There are certainly "out" groups in Australia.  Gangs exist, those Sudanese youths from the the story WLJ just posted, probably some Aboriginal groups, but in general, the culture of Australia is remarkably cohesive and homogenous.  Monocultures lead to decreased interpersonal violence almost everywhere they exist.  Japan and New Zealand have similar cultural traits with similar results.  Canada did, but are in the process of splitting into sub cultures.  China does as well, although the enforcement mechanism is *very* different.

So you think everyone decides to behave more peacefully by magic? Or just because some other people did first? Again, that’s 30 percent foreign born. Unless you mean something different by “culture” than what most dictionaries call it, it is absolutely not homogenous.

What you observed on your visits and what I see living here isn’t homogenous beliefs, it’s a relatively across all populations lower level of stress. The reasons for that are institutional, there isn’t anything in the water that just magically makes people from all over the world more chill here. If there is anything approaching a cultural cause it is that trade unions achieved extremely high membership and thereby shaped voting and social service institutions. Australia has that in common with Scandinavian countries. But that’s not a product of some esoteric “trust” or magic personal qualities of its people in either place.
 
If the United States had similarly robust democratic processes, social safety nets, relatively high wages and good job security, it would have the same “homogenous” low levels of stress. Given the gigantic amount of wealth there overall to be honest it could outdo Scandinavia. It’s just that for political reasons, you all choose not to live in that kind of society.

[De Selby]

Meanwhile

Woodgrove shopping centre, Melton: Families flee machete-wielding mob as savage gang fight erupts at suburban shopping centre in fresh outbreak of terrifying violence
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13312579/Woodgrove-shopping-centre-Melton-terrified-mothers-children-flee-mall-machete-wielding-men-bloody-brawl-Westfield-Bondi-Junction-tragedy.html

Not sure if serious. If it’s a contest of posting horror stories of crime to prove which country is more violent, you need only scan your state’s papers to see where that one is going to land.

[WLJ]

Not sure if serious. If it’s a contest of posting horror stories of crime to prove which country is more violent, you need only scan your state’s papers to see where that one is going to land.

The US is more violent? Huh, I didn't know that. Glad you're here to point that out. I wish the media would tell us these things.

[De Selby]

The US is more violent? Huh, I didn't know that. Glad you're here to point that out. I wish the media would tell us these things.

Weren’t you the guy posting media articles about crime? What was the point you were trying to make?

[sumpnz]

Weren’t you the guy posting media articles about crime? What was the point you were trying to make?

We'd ask the same about you.

[De Selby]

We'd ask the same about you.

1. That it discredits gun rights advocates to pretend it would’ve been no different if this guy were able to buy a rapid fire rifle and use that instead of knives;

2. That the generally lower rate of these incidents in Australia and other countries isn’t entirely to do with restrictions on weapons; high barriers to accessing health care and general life stressors are a cause as well.

[WLJ]

Weren’t you the guy posting media articles about crime? What was the point you were trying to make?

Do you view everything as some sort of political argument to be fought over? Maybe sometimes news is news.
Anyway
If I did have pick a point maybe that there are crazy people everywhere not just in the US and IF there was a political point maybe the one that nothing seems to be being done about them making all of us suffer. At first I was wondering if there could have been a Gaza protest connection (understandable speculation at this time IMHO) but have seen no evidence of one so far.

[dogmush]

So you think everyone decides to behave more peacefully by magic? Or just because some other people did first? Again, that’s 30 percent foreign born. Unless you mean something different by “culture” than what most dictionaries call it, it is absolutely not homogenous.

I don't "believe" anything.  I'm stating an objective fact.  Monocultures tend to have less interpersonal violence among members of the community.  Australia proactively vets incoming migrants to encourage them to internalize and adopt Austalian culture.  A person can adopt a new culture as their life changes, you know that right?  30% of people born overseas implies racial diversity, nut cultural. 

Culture in an individual can be fluid.  The prime example there is the early 20th century American immigrants who took pains to assimilate into American culture, in some cases even changing their names, and raise their children as Americans. 

What you observed on your visits and what I see living here isn’t homogenous beliefs, it’s a relatively across all populations lower level of stress. The reasons for that are institutional, there isn’t anything in the water that just magically makes people from all over the world more chill here. If there is anything approaching a cultural cause it is that trade unions achieved extremely high membership and thereby shaped voting and social service institutions. Australia has that in common with Scandinavian countries. But that’s not a product of some esoteric “trust” or magic personal qualities of its people in either place.
 
If the United States had similarly robust democratic processes, social safety nets, relatively high wages and good job security, it would have the same “homogenous” low levels of stress. Given the gigantic amount of wealth there overall to be honest it could outdo Scandinavia. It’s just that for political reasons, you all choose not to live in that kind of society.

Unfortunately for your rambling hypothesis, it's counter-factual.  Australians do not report significantly less stress than Americans.  Actually probably slightly more.  Australians report in the 35%-38% range for Significant Anxiety, Distress and Depression.  Americans report only 24% as significantly stressed.

Of the stressors, they are remarkably similar between our countries:  Finances/Money, Health issues, family issues, and workplace stress rank at the top.  (Although in the 2023 American stress survey "The Economy" edged out Family Issues here.  I guess we don't believe the messaging that Bidenomics is awesome.    )

These numbers are based in "soft science" so I wouldn't take them as the holy writ, but they certainly don't show a trend of less stress, and specifically less stress about health, mental health and employment in Oz vs. the US.  That's not the cause of Australia's relatively low violence rate.

[WLJ]

If the United States had similarly robust democratic processes, social safety nets, relatively high wages and good job security, it would have the same “homogenous” low levels of stress. Given the gigantic amount of wealth there overall to be honest it could outdo Scandinavia. It’s just that for political reasons, you all choose not to live in that kind of society.

And yet Scandinavian counties have a suicide rate equal to or greater than the US depending on which one you look at.

[De Selby]

I don't "believe" anything.  I'm stating an objective fact.  Monocultures tend to have less interpersonal violence among members of the community.  Australia proactively vets incoming migrants to encourage them to internalize and adopt Austalian culture.  A person can adopt a new culture as their life changes, you know that right?  30% of people born overseas implies racial diversity, nut cultural. 

So you think it is the 30 minute citizenship exam that created “monoculture”? And what is monoculture? It’s a bit rich to assert you’re stating a fact when the basis of it seems as wildly speculation based as that. I’m happy to hear what is a monoculture and also how the immigration system creates it here, but it seems a lot more fantastical as a cause of low violence and low stress than just having secure employment, high pay, and access to medicine.

Culture in an individual can be fluid.  The prime example there is the early 20th century American immigrants who took pains to assimilate into American culture, in some cases even changing their names, and raise their children as Americans. 

Unfortunately for your rambling hypothesis, it's counter-factual.  Australians do not report significantly less stress than Americans.  Actually probably slightly more.  Australians report in the 35%-38% range for Significant Anxiety, Distress and Depression.  Americans report only 24% as significantly stressed.

Of the stressors, they are remarkably similar between our countries:  Finances/Money, Health issues, family issues, and workplace stress rank at the top.  (Although in the 2023 American stress survey "The Economy" edged out Family Issues here.  I guess we don't believe the messaging that Bidenomics is awesome.    )

These numbers are based in "soft science" so I wouldn't take them as the holy writ, but they certainly don't show a trend of less stress, and specifically less stress about health, mental health and employment in Oz vs. the US.  That's not the cause of Australia's relatively low violence rate.

That’s a lot of words but although money health and family rate top, the measures of access to support for each are easily measured and it’s without a doubt that Australians have more security than the USA on those fronts. Again, you can assume it’s magic “monoculturalism” or look at measurable facts, like a higher level of job security, higher incomes, and easier access to healthcare. Those seem to be obvious causes of the lower stress and attendant lower levels of violence in this country. Asserting it is “monocultural” is not an objective response to basic economic measures.

[Ben]

So you think it is the 30 minute citizenship exam that created “monoculture”?

That's a bit disingenuous. Doesn't the "thirty minute citizenship exam" come well after a legal immigrant is vetted? It seems getting into Australia is a bit more complicated than slipping across the border and saying "here I am".

https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/citizenship/become-a-citizen/permanent-resident

[dogmush]

Come On De Selby, your neither retarded, nor ESL.  Sentence structure means something.  But let me lay it out for you:

It is an objective fact that populations with lower cultural diversity and higher interpersonal trust have less interpersonal violence.  I don't "think people decide to behave more peaceably by magic", there's plenty of repeatable studies among populations large and small that show this trait.  Australia, by and large, has a LOT of buy in and assimilation to the "Australian" culture, that is the societal values and mores that bind the population into a cohesive culture.  No this isn't done b a 30min citizenship test, but it is helped by having hard to bypass borders, and non rubber stamp immigration laws.  Helped, not 100% caused, before you jump on that.  By and Large, the people that choose to immigrate to Australia, and jump through the hoops to do so, do it because they want to be Australian, and largely assimilate to those values and mores.  Not 100%, Religion is still a thing, and you guys have the whole Aboriginal Gordian not going on, but in comparison to the US, and much of the recent immigration to Europe, Australia has lower variations in it's base culture, and is a higher interpersonal trust society.  <- Those traits are linked to lower interpersonal violence regardless of weapons availability throughout known history.

You also conveniently ignored the second part of my post that you quoted: 

We weren't discussing the ease of access to healthcare and employment benefits, we were discussing how people felt about them. Both the US and Australia regularly survey their populations on Stress and mental health, and the results of those studies are public and easily googleable.  True, they studies aren't identical in both countries, but they are very similar and show trends in the countries nicely.  Your hypothesis that Australians are less stressed is wrong.  Australians are similarly stressed.  For all that access to this that or the other may be measurably easier in Australia, it does not seem to translate to less stress about those functions. That's the problem with people's feelings.  You can tell them over and over again how great the economy is their safety net is and they might not agree and feel good about it.  Australians are not less stressed on a macro level than Americans, even if that hurts your personal feels about how great healthcare and employment is there.