Interesting questions on firearms carry

[K Frame]

Just had a discussion with a friend.

He's a retired officer, and thus comes under LEOSA (Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act). Only, to carry a gun under LEOSA, he has to qualify every year.

His qualification period is up in the middle of April. Given the virus, it's very likely that he won't be able to qualify in time to maintain standing under LEOSA.

He's going to be writing to some people to see what might become of this, as it's pretty likely that he's not the only one who is going to be affected by this.

It raised another interesting matter regarding CCWs...

In my county in Virginia, if you're a first time applicant, you must appear in person at the court house at the clerk's office and show your ID when you hand over your application. Only, right now the courts are closed...

Interesting conundrums...

[Unisaw]

It's not just companies that need to adjust to the idea that JIT may not work so well going forward.  Your post will make me review renewal dates and procedures for DL, CCW, passport, etc.

[K Frame]

I'm pretty sure that Virginia has extended driver's license renewals due to the virus, but I'm not sure about other things.

[cordex]

Your friend is fine so long as he isn't trying to walk into a courthouse or something (and probably even then).  A cop is going to look at his expired creds, get that he couldn't get them renewed and wave him on.  He's got nothing to worry about.

Then again, in many areas police aren't doing much generally.  If ever there were a time I'd be willing to chance carrying without a permit or on an expired permit, now would be it.  Unless you actually have to use your gun, or you do something really stupid, you probably aren't going to come in contact with a cop and if you do they probably aren't going to be coming in very close contact with you.  

[Ben]

Then again, in many areas police aren't doing much generally.  If ever there were a time I'd be willing to chance carrying without a permit or on an expired permit, now would be it.  Unless you actually have to use your gun, or you do something really stupid, you probably aren't going to come in contact with a cop and if you do they probably aren't going to be coming in very close contact with you.  

Contributing to the thread drift, I've been reading that NYC cops are calling in with the blue flu in unprecedented numbers, while at the same time, NYC is leaving/putting criminals on the streets. Certainly a good example for doing what you suggest.

[lee n. field]

Just had a discussion with a friend.

He's a retired officer, and thus comes under LEOSA (Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act). Only, to carry a gun under LEOSA, he has to qualify every year.

His qualification period is up in the middle of April. Given the virus, it's very likely that he won't be able to qualify in time to maintain standing under LEOSA.

He's going to be writing to some people to see what might become of this, as it's pretty likely that he's not the only one who is going to be affected by this.

It raised another interesting matter regarding CCWs...

In my county in Virginia, if you're a first time applicant, you must appear in person at the court house at the clerk's office and show your ID when you hand over your application. Only, right now the courts are closed...

Interesting conundrums...

Saw something on the Book of Faces, person in a similar situation, have to appear personally.   Was told "FU, so solly, you no can renew."

[Hawkmoon]

At least one state (don't recall which, but Gary Slider reported it on www.handgunlaw.us) has ordered that carry permits expiring about now are automatically extended for 90 days. Gary's comment was that's fine for in the state, but it could cause problems if you go out of state and rely on reciprocal recognition of your home state permit, since the out-of-state cop may not know your permit is still good.

Our governor has issued an order having something to do with "remote notarization." Then I think he issued another order saying something about for the next 90 days any document (other than a last will and testament) that's witnessed is exempt from notary requirements. I need to check with my town clerk to find out how accurately the media reported all that.

[230RN]

I guess Reality is coming to the fore.  

About a week ago my apartment management, among other things, waived the late fee for rent payments.

No big deal in terms of State and national problems (like CCW renewals), but symptomatic of people facing up to the realities of this disease.

A couple of weeks ago my pharmacy allowed me to get three month's worth of prescription refill instead of just the monthly amount.  It took a little back room discussion of the matter before they okayed it.

I guess I'm OK on my CCW, which expires much later in the year.

We'll see what's going on at that point in time.

As much as I get antsy about "emergency powers" of officials, I suspect a lot of officials (like Justices of the Peace) are going to have to declare moratoriums on time limits and expirations (e.g, WRT driver's license and car registration renewals) under the that which is necessary is legal "doctrine", I suppose.

Lucky me !  I just renewed my car registration !  Yee-haw !

Terry

[castle key]

Your friend is fine so long as he isn't trying to walk into a courthouse or something (and probably even then).  A cop is going to look at his expired creds, get that he couldn't get them renewed and wave him on.  He's got nothing to worry about.

For such issues, yes, but should the expired qualification retired officer slot someone, the problem could expand.

If facing charges, would that expired qual move him to the level of just an ordinary mere mortal, or would he be judged by the presumption that he is "the only one professional enough" to make a decision on shoot/don't shoot?

[RoadKingLarry]

I've still got 3 more years on my carry permit and 2 on the DL. Oklahoma went "constitutional carry last year but I'll keep my permit current for travel anyway. Of course I've only gone out of state twice in the last 8 years so not a big issue.

On a side note, I had pretty well quit carrying when my hip went bad a few years ago because it was too painful for IWB or even OWB  carry on my strong side, even with a J-frame. I had been "getting by" with leaving the J-frame in the console all the time but with the crazy times upon us i'm back to packing a compact 1911 full time.

[cordex]

For such issues, yes, but should the expired qualification retired officer slot someone, the problem could expand.

You're right, but the flip side in that scenario is being faced with a life threatening situation without his gun.

If facing charges, would that expired qual move him to the level of just an ordinary mere mortal, or would he be judged by the presumption that he is "the only one professional enough" to make a decision on shoot/don't shoot?

I'd hope he'd be judged based on the merits of the shoot either way.

[MillCreek]

A bunch of the local police and sheriff departments have closed for new or renewing permits.  They have essentially said that they will not be enforcing those laws until they reopen for business and there will be no late fees for late renewals. On a similar note, all the driver licenses in the state can now be renewed online.

[Hawkmoon]

At one time, my home state required me to appear in person to renew my carry permit. I maintain a Pennsylvania permit for when I visit a friend who lives near Philadelphia. Pennsylvania allowed me to renew by mail.

A few years, in a massive flip-flop, my home state decided to allow me to renew by mail. At about the same time, Pennsylvania began requiring renewals to be made in person. I have now gone through two renewals in PA under that system, each one involving a trip that used up all of a VERY long day. I wonder if they will waive the in person requirement or extend the renewal window.

[HankB]

Lucky me !  I just renewed my car registration !  Yee-haw !

My SUV registration expires at the end of this month. And TX requires an inspection first. We'll see how this goes.

[MechAg94]

I have an appointment to get my truck serviced later this month.  I haven't checked to see if they are open.  I would think dropping by a place for inspection would be one of the safer things you can do.  You don't have to sit in the waiting room with everyone else.

[fifth_column]

On the original topic.  I can't imagine any active LEO would hassle a retired LEO for carrying with an expired license.

[Boomhauer]

Shops are open. Auto mechanics are listed as essential under every lockdown order I’ve seen so far

[Hawkmoon]

Shops are open. Auto mechanics are listed as essential under every lockdown order I’ve seen so far

And yet on the Jeep forum where I hang out, one of the younger guys who works in a dealership just announced that he has been laid off.

[230RN]

...

On a side note, I had pretty well quit carrying when my hip went bad a few years ago because it was too painful for IWB or even OWB  carry on my strong side, even with a J-frame. I had been "getting by" with leaving the J-frame in the console all the time but with the crazy times upon us i'm back to packing a compact 1911 full time.

Did you ever try carrying the J-frame in your pocket?  Not "tacticool," but it works for me.  Yes, same weight, but somehow distributed differently.  (I found a small auto shows a "gunnish" outline in your pants, but the J-frame just looks like a bunch of junk in your pocket.)

Mae West jokes are unnecessary at this point.

Terry, 230RN

[RoadKingLarry]

Did you ever try carrying the J-frame in your pocket?  Not "tacticool," but it works for me.  Yes, same weight, but somehow distributed differently.  (I found a small auto shows a "gunnish" outline in your pants, but the J-frame just looks like a bunch of junk in your pocket.)

Mae West jokes are unnecessary at this point.

Terry, 230RN

Might be the style pants I wear or that there is too much of me in the pants but I've never been comfortable with pocket carry. Even my purse pants don't work for me.

[Boomhauer]

Hawkmoon that would be because of the lack of business. The auto shops have been hit hard by the shutdowns customer wise.

We have too. I may be looking at reduced hours or a lay-off as well depending on how *expletive deleted*it goes next quarter.

[Perd Hapley]

And yet on the Jeep forum where I hang out, one of the younger guys who works in a dealership just announced that he has been laid off.

When half the workforce is either laid off or telecommuting, I think we can expect business at your local dealership to be a bit slow (fewer people driving; even fewer buying cars).

It still wouldn't make sense for the .gov to close down the repair shops and car lots, though. Doctors and nurses have to get to work. Police cars and ambulances need to stay on the road. Semi's and delivery trucks, too. Oh, yeah, I almost forgot the Grub Hub drivers.

[Devonai]

I'm in a bind as I stupidly let my CT state permit expire last June.  In my defense I had it in my head that the expiration date was that of my drivers license, and I never got the renewal letter.  Around September last year I bothered to actually, you know, look at my permit.  Big oops.

I called the staties and they said sorry bud, you have to start from scratch with a town permit.  I got all the paperwork from my local PD but my last official (civilian) qual course was in 1997 and didn't have a lot of confidence they'd accept it.  I did qualify with the M9 for the military as recently as 2014, but they migrated to a new database and lost those records.  I also qualified with the M4 last fall but it's obviously not a pistol.  I called the detective in charge of processing and left a message asking if any of my military experience could be used to waive an NRA qual course, and he never called me back.

Now with all the craziness I've given up on it altogether for the time being.  If society crumbles I'll do what I have to do.  I don't seriously think that will happen around here.

[BobR]

And yet on the Jeep forum where I hang out, one of the younger guys who works in a dealership just announced that he has been laid off.

That could also be lack of business. I took my Jeep in the other day for some work and it seemed pretty barren in the bays. Here they can work on vehicles but they can't sell them. I had my toy hauler worked on and my Jeep worked on so far.

bob

[K Frame]

Did you ever try carrying the J-frame in your pocket?  Not "tacticool," but it works for me.  Yes, same weight, but somehow distributed differently.  (I found a small auto shows a "gunnish" outline in your pants, but the J-frame just looks like a bunch of junk in your pocket.)

Mae West jokes are unnecessary at this point.

Terry, 230RN

Right front pocket carry of my S&W 042 Centennial Hammerless has been my preferred carry mode now for.... almost 20 years? And I believe that I was carrying my Taurus PT-22 that way for years before that, as well.

As I slowly transition to my Walther CCP, though, I'm going to have to give up on pocket carry. The CCP is simply too big.