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Author Topic: Mandatory masks?  (Read 8273 times)
Ron
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« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2020, 02:08:04 PM »

My work issued me two cloth masks that probably aren't any better than a bandanna. They are more comfortable though and we aren't required to wear them.

When we get back to actual customer facing we are required yo wear them. At that point, if there is still a lot of uncertainty I'll hopefully have some real masks that actually block stuff.

Here in Illinois I'm now "required" by Governor fiat to wear a mask in public where social distancing isn't practical.
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Andiron
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« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2020, 05:06:21 PM »

I don't have a problem with it, but I'm in the very high risk category. The problem is that masks are as much (or more) for protecting other people as they are for protecting the wearer. If someone wants to go out unprotected and catch the coronavirus, that's fine with me. I feel the same about people who ride motorcycles without helmets. But someone not wearing a mask could easily infect me with this bug. If I catch it, I'll more than likely die. So, no ... I don't object to people being told they shouldn't infect others.

Redundant at this point, as others more eloquent than I have answered,  but my layman's response is that sounds like your problem not mine.

If my governor wants to mandate masks,  he should run it through the legislature and pass a law.  Full stop.  And with that we ignore the efficacy of said "face coverings" and go right back to legality.

Again,  it's selfish, but I'm completely sick of debating this stupid *expletive deleted*it with security first quislings.  It's mostly pointless and the state has no right to mandate them,  along with the rest of the arbitrary shutdown.  Don't even start me on the snitch hotlines.
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RoadKingLarry
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« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2020, 05:36:38 PM »

I still doubt it is an engineered virus, just from little I know about coronavirus in porcine. Other naturally occurring human pathogens have lead to other complications in humans.

Mumps virus can lead to meningitis, pancreatitis, swelling of the heart, permanent deafness, and infertility.

Rubella (German measles) virus can cause myocarditis, still births/miscarriages.

Measles (and rubella) virus can lead to encephalitis or pneumonia

Scarlet fever is a bacteria human pathogen that had lasting problems (heart, kidneys, arthritis) for a lot of people.

3 out of 4 and does the mumps twice count as 4 for 4?
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« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2020, 05:41:01 PM »

If the mask is black does that count as black facing? If the person wearing it is white of course.
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« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2020, 05:54:12 PM »

3 out of 4 and does the mumps twice count as 4 for 4?


huh?
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Ben
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« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2020, 06:06:01 PM »

3 out of 4 and does the mumps twice count as 4 for 4?


Yeah, I remember when sending kids to the sick kid's house was the cure. I also had the mumps, chicken pox and measles. Apparently in 1980, there were 2.6 million measles deaths. Guess they should have social distanced.

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Measles affects about 20 million people a year,[3] primarily in the developing areas of Africa and Asia.[7] While often regarded as a childhood illness, it can affect people of any age.[14] It is one of the leading vaccine-preventable disease causes of death.[15][16] In 1980, 2.6 million people died of it,[7

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles

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« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2020, 06:27:22 PM »

Yeah, I remember when sending kids to the sick kid's house was the cure. I also had the mumps, chicken pox and measles. Apparently in 1980, there were 2.6 million measles deaths. Guess they should have social distanced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles



I think you're missing my point of something may not seem so bad with a low mortality rate may lead to lifelong medical conditions and shorter lifespan.
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Ben
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« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2020, 06:33:32 PM »

I think you're missing my point of something may not seem so bad with a low mortality rate may lead to lifelong medical conditions and shorter lifespan.

I was replying to what RKL said.
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« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2020, 10:03:03 PM »

I still doubt it is an engineered virus, just from little I know about coronavirus in porcine. Other naturally occurring human pathogens have lead to other complications in humans.

Define "engineered".

Purposly designed for this effect in humans as a weapon?  I have my suspicions, but it is not proven certainly.

Fiddled with by humans as an attempt to provide a virus to experiment on for lab purposes?  Almost certainly, based on what we know.

We can argue about what the Wuhan lab was doing, but there's enough smoke around the whole "it got out of the Wuhan lab" fire that one needs to purposly look the other way to miss the flames.
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Ron
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« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2020, 04:23:30 AM »

If there is something contagious and deadly spreading through your community I would think you would take every precaution to keep yourself safe.

If it takes a government fiat/law to force the people to protect themselves then there is something wrong with both the people and the government.  

I wear the stupid mask because I live in the shadow of Mordor on Lake Michigan, a densely populated urbane/suburban area with "hot spots" blowing up around me. Not everywhere is experiencing the same impact.

Adults should be able to assess their own risk and whether they are endangering others.

Unfortunately adults are in short supply in many places.

"There ought to be a law" isn't going to fix stupid.
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Jamisjockey
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« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2020, 04:29:38 AM »

I'm amazed by how many armchair patriots are in my facebook newsfeed now. 
Patriot act good.  War on drugs, good.  Civil forfeiture, good.  Masks for 30 days?  AW HELL NAW!
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« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2020, 04:32:49 AM »

Define "engineered".

Purposly designed for this effect in humans as a weapon?  I have my suspicions, but it is not proven certainly.

Fiddled with by humans as an attempt to provide a virus to experiment on for lab purposes?  Almost certainly, based on what we know.

We can argue about what the Wuhan lab was doing, but there's enough smoke around the whole "it got out of the Wuhan lab" fire that one needs to purposly look the other way to miss the flames.

As a weapon, I have a hard time agreeing. If the lab was trying to modify (or culture a natural) a virus create a vaccine for other human coronaviruses, I can see that. Happens everyday in America, why wouldn't the Chinese be doing the same. Even modifying an animal coronavirus to be used as a carrier to create a GMO commodity animal is even possible. I also don't trust any news out of China either.
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Ben
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« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2020, 04:36:22 AM »



I wear the stupid mask because I live in the shadow of Mordor on Lake Michigan, a densely populated urbane/suburban area with "hot spots" blowing up around me. Not everywhere is experiencing the same impact.

Adults should be able to assess their own risk and whether they are endangering others.


Yup. If I lived in LA, my jaunts away from home would be 50% less, and I'd wear a mask every damn place. If NYC, knock that up to 90%. Goes back to lowest common denominator by law versus targeted enforcement/education.
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Ron
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« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2020, 04:36:49 AM »

Define "engineered".

Purposly designed for this effect in humans as a weapon?  I have my suspicions, but it is not proven certainly.

Fiddled with by humans as an attempt to provide a virus to experiment on for lab purposes?  Almost certainly, based on what we know.

We can argue about what the Wuhan lab was doing, but there's enough smoke around the whole "it got out of the Wuhan lab" fire that one needs to purposly look the other way to miss the flames.

The unknown, is this a tampered with/engineered virus? research or weapon? is another reason I'm still employing caution.

The wide range of reported symptoms beyond the respiratory symptoms makes me pause for reflection ... does anyone really know what was unleashed?

  

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Jamisjockey
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« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2020, 04:43:00 AM »


The idea that China is trying to be a world power includes they doing things like trying to advance scientific research.  The US and west aren't leading the wold solely because we carry the biggest stick.  We do the most medical and scientific research to propel humanity forward.  China's value on the world stage increases if they compete with us on all fronts.

China may be bold, but they aren't "researching new weapons in the middle of a city" bold.  I doubt that any bioweapon research they are doing is taking place in the middle of a city.
They are, however, doing scientific research. Poorly, I might add.  Workers at that facility report getting splashed with bat urine and blood due to improper sample handling and lack of PPE.
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JD

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« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2020, 05:22:12 AM »

I'm amazed by how many armchair patriots are in my facebook newsfeed now. 
Patriot act good.  War on drugs, good.  Civil forfeiture, good.  Masks for 30 days?  AW HELL NAW!

Yeah, but I understand the mask part. Why 30 days? Why now? Why not 90 days? It's more, as Ron pointed out elsewhere, TSA-like security theater right now.

You know when a "wear a mask for 30 days" requirement would have been better accepted and also very likely would have cut way down on daily spread numbers? Around 60 days ago, when the gov as well as dunderhead "news outlets" like Vox* were telling everyone that masks don't work. "Only moron preppers and anti-sciencey guys would think a mask would work! Don't wear masks you morons!"


* I note that one of the Vox editors who was admonishing the anti-science morons two months ago about taking PPE away from health care workers, not too long ago posted about how glad he was that he bought N95 masks for his family in February.

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« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2020, 05:59:48 AM »

China may be bold, but they aren't "researching new weapons in the middle of a city" bold.  I doubt that any bioweapon research they are doing is taking place in the middle of a city.

Even the soviets weren't that stupid, they had their bioweapon labs out in the middle of no where, like USSR, China also has a lot of low population space to have a "safe" lab.

One of the Soviets labs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vozrozhdeniya_Island
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« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2020, 06:02:19 AM »

The unknown, is this a tampered with/engineered virus? research or weapon? is another reason I'm still employing caution.

The wide range of reported symptoms beyond the respiratory symptoms makes me pause for reflection ... does anyone really know what was unleashed?

You really don't know much about human pathogens do you?
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« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2020, 06:49:20 AM »

Even the soviets weren't that stupid, they had their bioweapon labs out in the middle of no where, like USSR, China also has a lot of low population space to have a "safe" lab.

One of the Soviets labs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vozrozhdeniya_Island

I loved Ken Alibek's book about the Soviet biological program.
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« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2020, 06:52:20 AM »

Even the soviets weren't that stupid, they had their bioweapon labs out in the middle of no where, like USSR, China also has a lot of low population space to have a "safe" lab.

One of the Soviets labs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vozrozhdeniya_Island

Well, the Soviets did have that unfortunate escape of anthrax from the bioweapons lab in Sverdlovsk.
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« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2020, 07:07:53 AM »

Well, the Soviets did have that unfortunate escape of anthrax from the bioweapons lab in Sverdlovsk.

It doesn't even have to be a matter of "stupid thing to do" regarding a bioweapon lab in a populated area, depending on the country. I can think of a half dozen countries off the top of my head that would have no problem hiding a bioweapons lab, or any other dangerous facility in the middle of one of their crowded cities. There are regimes out there that have no problem with a half million of their citizens dying to protect their strategic agenda.

I still think it's less likely that the Wuhan facility was into any bioweapons research, given that we were giving them money. That would be pretty freakin' ballsy, but certainly not out of the question for the Chineses. I'm still leaning heavily towards disease research and crappy protocols, but  I won't rule out bioweapon experimentation for reasons I've outlined elsewhere. I'm about 99% ruling out "Some guy ate a bat sandwich for lunch down the street from the lab" (unless [dons tinfoil] somebody placed infected bat meat there to create a patient zero [removes tinfoil]).
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« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2020, 07:15:48 AM »

Well, the Soviets did have that unfortunate escape of anthrax from the bioweapons lab in Sverdlovsk.

and Kirov, I think anthrax from rats captured in Kirov was the source of the anthrax in Sverdlovsk escape.
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« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2020, 07:53:08 AM »

Redundant at this point, as others more eloquent than I have answered,  but my layman's response is that sounds like your problem not mine.

If my governor wants to mandate masks,  he should run it through the legislature and pass a law.  Full stop.  And with that we ignore the efficacy of said "face coverings" and go right back to legality.

Again,  it's selfish, but I'm completely sick of debating this stupid *expletive deleted*it with security first quislings.  It's mostly pointless and the state has no right to mandate them,  along with the rest of the arbitrary shutdown.  Don't even start me on the snitch hotlines.

He walked it back on Tuesday.
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Ron
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« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2020, 11:11:46 AM »

You really don't know much about human pathogens do you?

Not at all.

Listening to the 'experts" has yielded me next to no help.

Do I need to run down all of the wrong and crazy *expletive deleted*it the experts have spouted these last few months?

We could make a long thread just about the fallacious information the cdc and who put out there.

You can boot lick them as your betters and authority but I'll take a pass.
 
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« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2020, 12:00:52 PM »

It doesn't even have to be a matter of "stupid thing to do" regarding a bioweapon lab in a populated area, depending on the country. I can think of a half dozen countries off the top of my head that would have no problem hiding a bioweapons lab, or any other dangerous facility in the middle of one of their crowded cities. There are regimes out there that have no problem with a half million of their citizens dying to protect their strategic agenda.

I still think it's less likely that the Wuhan facility was into any bioweapons research, given that we were giving them money. That would be pretty freakin' ballsy, but certainly not out of the question for the Chineses. I'm still leaning heavily towards disease research and crappy protocols, but  I won't rule out bioweapon experimentation for reasons I've outlined elsewhere. I'm about 99% ruling out "Some guy ate a bat sandwich for lunch down the street from the lab" (unless [dons tinfoil] somebody placed infected bat meat there to create a patient zero [removes tinfoil]).
I think the rumor I heard was not so much about weapons as just sloppy genetic research.  That was a just a rumor though.  The sloppy safety practices just seems to fit with other stuff we know about China and communists in general.
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