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Author Topic: Mandatory masks?  (Read 8276 times)
Andiron
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« on: April 28, 2020, 06:40:29 AM »

Our illustrious governor has just declared “No mask, no work, no service, no exception,” DeWine said at Monday’s press conference.  He seems to be tiptoeing along the line of mandatory, stopping just short of it by saying in the official release ( https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/responsible-restart-ohio/Responsible-Protocols/Responsible-Protocols)  that "1. Recommend face coverings for employees and clients/customers."

I'm getting really sick of being told "you must do this thing of questionable efficacy because Kung Flu".  And what's worse,  is everyone is going along with it without question.

What do you guys think of this?
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2020, 06:54:31 AM »

If businesses or organizations want to require masks that's fine. No shirt, no shoes, no mask, etc.
If governments want to strongly encourage masks (and hand washing), that's fine too. Have the health department make their sales pitch.
Mandatory from the government is unacceptable save for some very limited exceptions like maybe hospitals.
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Brad Johnson
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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2020, 06:57:50 AM »

If mask supplies are limited and not easily accessible then requiring them as a condition of employment is essentially a de facto ban on employment. I can't see that going unchallenged in court. Also, even though it's a "recommendation", the employers who see it as edict better be prepared to ante up... requiring PPE as a condition of employment also comes with the requirement that it be employer-provided.

Attorney General Barr has issued an unambiguous statement that onerous or unrealistic regulations will be getting the Federal Stinkeye Treatment. Our illustrious state politicos would to well to pay heed.

Brad
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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2020, 07:05:38 AM »

I agree it shouldn't be a absolute requirement imposed by .gov. 

The thing about masks that makes me look askance at them is at first we were told that they're not effective,  even counterproductive.  Now,  we're being told THOUGH SHALT USE THY MASKS OR ELSE .....

I have not  been able to find any.  A month ago I ordered some from Amazon and those are due in mid May!   A week ago I found, also on Amazon, a smaller order with a faster delivery date,  and they're due tomorrow.

I think a lot of people are having a more difficult time acquiring them.   As Brad Johnson said,  this could be a de facto ban  on employment and we really truly need to get this economy spun up again.
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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2020, 07:10:11 AM »


The thing about masks that makes me look askance at them is at first we were told that they're not effective,  even counterproductive.  

That was idiotic and blatantly false right from the start. If masks were effective for health care workers, then they were effective for everyone.
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2020, 07:16:36 AM »

That was idiotic and blatantly false right from the start. If masks were effective for health care workers, then they were effective for everyone.

This.  It was a deliberate manipulation attempt in order to keep the public from buying out all the inventory of masks.
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« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2020, 07:50:00 AM »

95% of the people I see are wearing their masks around their necks or with their nose exposed or they don’t have any kind of seal going on. The unwashed trash also all seem to think the masks are fashion accessories...maybe they should try taking a *expletive deleted*ing bath and washing their damn hands instead.
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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2020, 07:51:10 AM »

This.  It was a deliberate manipulation attempt in order to keep the public from buying out all the inventory of masks.
Yeah, lying is usually the wrong way to go.
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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2020, 07:55:43 AM »

Is the purpose of the mask to protect me?  Or to keep those who may not know they are a carrier from further spreading the virus? 

From what I understand, the mask rule that Houston/Harris County tried to do was just a face covering.  You could just wear a bandana over your mouth and nose and be compliant.  (The cowboy hat and gun belt might draw unwanted attention.)  IMO, the bandana is at least effective at keeping any particulate from projecting from your mouth or nose while going about your day. 
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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2020, 08:01:57 AM »

Is the purpose of the mask to protect me?  Or to keep those who may not know they are a carrier from further spreading the virus? 

From what I understand, the mask rule that Houston/Harris County tried to do was just a face covering.  You could just wear a bandana bananas over your mouth and nose and be compliant.  (The cowboy hat and gun belt might draw unwanted attention.)  IMO, the bandana is at least effective at keeping any particulate from projecting from your mouth or nose while going about your day. 

FIFY

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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2020, 08:34:53 AM »

The Harris County mask order is already under fire from several fronts. First, there is the issue of the judge having the legal standing to do so. Several articles I've seen indicate that she has grossly exceeded her authority in this respect. Second, it exceeds Governor Abbott's requirements. Since Hizzoner's EO specifically specifically forbids requirement in excess of those stated, I see this going nowhere.

There's also the small issue of the Houston Police Officer's Association essentially giving her the finger. When you don't have the support of officers tasked with enforcing the ruling, any further proselytizing is just playing to your fan base for the marketing value.

Brad
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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2020, 08:48:37 AM »

Is the purpose of the mask to protect me?  Or to keep those who may not know they are a carrier from further spreading the virus?  

From what I understand, the mask rule that Houston/Harris County tried to do was just a face covering.  You could just wear a bandana over your mouth and nose and be compliant.  (The cowboy hat and gun belt might draw unwanted attention.)  IMO, the bandana is at least effective at keeping any particulate from projecting from your mouth or nose while going about your day.  

The purpose of wearing a bananamask is mostly to protect others around you, but it also protects you a little bit.  An N95 or better mask is to protect both ways.  I wear an N95 (and got scolded for it by a stupid person I work with because the president says it's not necessary) because I had a couple of N95s already, and I have several risk factors for covid; the wosrt is probably that I get bronchitis and/or asthma every freakin time I get a cold, sometimes leading to pneumonia.  I get over the actual cold in a few days but I'm sick for weeks and cough for months.

It creates a dilemma for me if .gov orders me to wear a mask, because I want to wear a mask anyway but don't wanna comply with an illegal order.   rolleyes  When I was in Texas recently, it wasn't an issue because I was just north of Harris County (in Montgomery Co)

I ran into an Asian grocery store yesterday spur of the moment.  I didn't have a mask with me, so I just stayed 10 feet away from everybody.  It was weird; I was the only one in there without a mask. (I was also the only white person there, but I wasn't really self-conscious about that)  When I goto an American store, I'm usually one of the few people wearing a mask.
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2020, 08:55:46 AM »

The purpose of wearing a bananamask is mostly to protect others around you, but it also protects you a little bit.  An N95 or better mask is to protect both ways.  I wear an N95 (and got scolded for it by a stupid person I work with because the president says it's not necessary) because I had a couple of N95s already, and I have several risk factors for covid; the wosrt is probably that I get bronchitis and/or asthma every freakin time I get a cold, sometimes leading to pneumonia.  I get over the actual cold in a few days but I'm sick for weeks and cough for months.

It creates a dilemma for me if .gov orders me to wear a mask, because I want to wear a mask anyway but don't wanna comply with an illegal order.   rolleyes  When I was in Texas recently, it wasn't an issue because I was just north of Harris County (in Montgomery Co)

I ran into an Asian grocery store yesterday spur of the moment.  I didn't have a mask with me, so I just stayed 10 feet away from everybody.  It was weird; I was the only one in there without a mask. (I was also the only white person there, but I wasn't really self-conscious about that)  When I goto an American store, I'm usually one of the few people wearing a mask.

I went to Menards last night, I would say it was 80/20 on those with masks and those without. I wasn't wearing a mask, mostly because with my ZZ top beard, it's not that effective.
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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2020, 09:16:07 AM »

I went to Menards last night, I would say it was 80/20 on those with masks and those without. I wasn't wearing a mask, mostly because with my ZZ top beard, it's not that effective.


I would make a joke about your vanity beard putting other people in danger, but people are getting real touchy lately, so...
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2020, 09:25:08 AM »

Our illustrious governor has just declared “No mask, no work, no service, no exception,” DeWine said at Monday’s press conference.  He seems to be tiptoeing along the line of mandatory, stopping just short of it by saying in the official release ( https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/responsible-restart-ohio/Responsible-Protocols/Responsible-Protocols)  that "1. Recommend face coverings for employees and clients/customers."

I'm getting really sick of being told "you must do this thing of questionable efficacy because Kung Flu".  And what's worse,  is everyone is going along with it without question.

What do you guys think of this?

I don't have a problem with it, but I'm in the very high risk category. The problem is that masks are as much (or more) for protecting other people as they are for protecting the wearer. If someone wants to go out unprotected and catch the coronavirus, that's fine with me. I feel the same about people who ride motorcycles without helmets. But someone not wearing a mask could easily infect me with this bug. If I catch it, I'll more than likely die. So, no ... I don't object to people being told they shouldn't infect others.
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2020, 09:31:33 AM »


I would make a joke about your vanity beard putting other people in danger, but people are getting real touchy lately, so...

I think you're jealous of it.  Grumpy Old Man

I maintain a beard anyway, because I have too many moles on my face that a razor likes to knick if I was clean shaven. It is also my facial sunburn/windburn protection when working in ag fields all summer.
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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2020, 09:56:18 AM »

I think you're jealous of it.  Grumpy Old Man

I maintain a beard anyway, because I have too many moles on my face that a razor likes to knick if I was clean shaven. It is also my facial sunburn/windburn protection when working in ag fields all summer.

I don't think I've seen it.
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« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2020, 10:06:05 AM »

I don't have a problem with it, but I'm in the very high risk category. The problem is that masks are as much (or more) for protecting other people as they are for protecting the wearer. If someone wants to go out unprotected and catch the coronavirus, that's fine with me. I feel the same about people who ride motorcycles without helmets. But someone not wearing a mask could easily infect me with this bug. If I catch it, I'll more than likely die. So, no ... I don't object to people being told they shouldn't infect others.

Then wear a mask that protects you.  Those do exist. Expecting other people to do something because you have a high risk factor is a recipe for disappointment, notwithstanding any liberty/legal issues with it.

Also, I fail to see the reason for the sudden nationwide mask shortage.  The curve has essentially been flattened.  Outside of a few select areas the health care system is not overwhelmed.  This is the time the healthy people need to start producing antibodies to isolate the disease.  If you are high risk like Hawkmoon, or likely to have an issue with a respiratory illness, definitely engage in strict social distancing, and utilize properly deployed PPE.  The rest of us need to herd up and start building the immunity.
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« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2020, 10:09:31 AM »

Then wear a mask that protects you.  Those do exist. Expecting other people to do something because you have a high risk factor is a recipe for disappointment, notwithstanding any liberty/legal issues with it.

Also, I fail to see the reason for the sudden nationwide mask shortage.  The curve has essentially been flattened.  Outside of a few select areas the health care system is not overwhelmed.  This is the time the healthy people need to start producing antibodies to isolate the disease.  If you are high risk like Hawkmoon, or likely to have an issue with a respiratory illness, definitely engage in strict social distancing, and utilize properly deployed PPE.  The rest of us need to herd up and start building the immunity.

The lasting effects of this virus are still unknown. As a wrote in another thread about early on in the virus spread 23% of those who were positive also developed some sort of cardiac problems. Not sure of those will be temporary or life long.
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« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2020, 10:46:06 AM »

Then wear a mask that protects you.

Like those N95 masks that not even the hospitals can get? One of those?

The rest of us need to herd up and start building the immunity.

From what I've read, there is a big question as to whether there is any such thing as herd immunity to COVID-19. The articles I read over this past weekend indicated that even people who had it and recovered will probably be susceptible again within three to six months.
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« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2020, 10:46:20 AM »

Then wear a mask that protects you.  Those do exist. Expecting other people to do something because you have a high risk factor is a recipe for disappointment, notwithstanding any liberty/legal issues with it.

Also, I fail to see the reason for the sudden nationwide mask shortage.  The curve has essentially been flattened.  Outside of a few select areas the health care system is not overwhelmed.  This is the time the healthy people need to start producing antibodies to isolate the disease.  If you are high risk like Hawkmoon, or likely to have an issue with a respiratory illness, definitely engage in strict social distancing, and utilize properly deployed PPE.  The rest of us need to herd up and start building the immunity.

One Hundred Percent.

With the flu, we aren't asking 98 people to wear masks everywhere so that 2 people don't die from the flu. Now we should ask 96 people to all wear masks everywhere so that 4 people don't die from the virus?

This has been one of the problems with our response since this started. We are going lowest common denominator instead of isolating specific groups. If you are high risk, isolate yourself and order stuff from Amazon.

This virus has already mutated. That means if we're going the mask route, everyone, everywhere has to continue wearing masks (often incorrectly as pointed out above) for what? Forever? Even as the curve flattens it doesn't mean the virus goes away, and high risk individuals are still high risk. There will be more pandemics and epidemics - depending on how they are defined, I appear to have lived through 4-8 of them with no government mandates or lockdowns. There will be more viruses. The world is not a safe space. A free world especially not so. This is getting to be like a city banning peanuts because 100 residents have a peanut allergy.

In the short term (as in, a few weeks), did lockdowns help? Probably. We can't continue them forever though, and in the long term, they will be detrimental, both economically and medically. As Dogmush said, we have to get the herd immunity going or just plan on walking around in isolation suits for the rest of our lives to avoid catching stuff.
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« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2020, 10:47:47 AM »

The lasting effects of this virus are still unknown. As a wrote in another thread about early on in the virus spread 23% of those who were positive also developed some sort of cardiac problems. Not sure of those will be temporary or life long.
I have heard bits and pieces of commentary like that.  Starts making me rethink the idea of an engineered virus....or at least that one thing I saw that claimed the Wuhan lab was doing all sorts of gene manipulation just to see what happened.  
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« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2020, 11:37:33 AM »

I don't have a problem with it, but I'm in the very high risk category. The problem is that masks are as much (or more) for protecting other people as they are for protecting the wearer. If someone wants to go out unprotected and catch the coronavirus, that's fine with me. I feel the same about people who ride motorcycles without helmets. But someone not wearing a mask could easily infect me with this bug. If I catch it, I'll more than likely die. So, no ... I don't object to people being told they shouldn't infect others.


Being told we shouldn't infect others is a whole lot different from being told we must all wear masks. It's the difference between mandating that someone disclose they're HIV-positive prior to sexual intercourse, and mandating that everyone use condoms.

Just because I'm standing in front you without a mask doesn't mean I'm infecting you. And if you want me to wear one, you could ask, instead of using government to force me to do it.
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« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2020, 11:45:26 AM »

Mandatory from the government is unacceptable save for some very limited exceptions like maybe hospitals.
or not...
Pence flouts Mayo Clinic policy by not wearing face covering
He is getting pretty good at that elbow thing though.  laugh
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« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2020, 12:10:42 PM »

I have heard bits and pieces of commentary like that.  Starts making me rethink the idea of an engineered virus....or at least that one thing I saw that claimed the Wuhan lab was doing all sorts of gene manipulation just to see what happened.  

I still doubt it is an engineered virus, just from little I know about coronavirus in porcine. Other naturally occurring human pathogens have lead to other complications in humans.

Mumps virus can lead to meningitis, pancreatitis, swelling of the heart, permanent deafness, and infertility.

Rubella (German measles) virus can cause myocarditis, still births/miscarriages.

Measles (and rubella) virus can lead to encephalitis or pneumonia

Scarlet fever is a bacteria human pathogen that had lasting problems (heart, kidneys, arthritis) for a lot of people.
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