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Author Topic: Karen has been fired  (Read 4342 times)
Hawkmoon
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« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2020, 05:36:52 PM »

True.  How about speeding?  That's a crime.  Does every employer reserve the right to fire someone who is guilty of speeding?  If not for speeding, what crime is serious enough?


Speeding is not a crime. Speeding is not even a misdemeanor. It's a civil infraction. Making a false police report is a crime.

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The point I'm making here is that we have to draw the line somewhere between personal life and professional life.  If we are happy that this Karen got fired today, then we should be happy that one of us gets fired later.

I didn't say I'm happy she was fired. I do think she created the situation, but I also think firing is a bit over the top as a response. However, as I posted previously, wed on't know if she was a star player for her company or if she was a chronic screw-up who was on the verge of being terminated anyway.
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« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2020, 08:12:53 PM »

  Does every employer reserve the right to fire someone who is guilty of speeding?  If not for speeding, what crime is serious enough?

Legally speaking, why should anyone else have a say in who you hire or fire, or why?


Also, is Karen more of a Karen than the Karen who told her to leash her dog?
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2020, 03:05:13 AM »

Everyone seems to be missing the very important point that many employers will fire you if your actions, while not rising to a criminal nature, bring disrepute to the company and bring into question your ability to be a representative of the company and to be an effective member of the team.

How many people have we all heard of who have been terminated because of egregious tweets or facebook posts?

I've known a couple of people in my career who have lost their jobs because their actions have called into question their ability to work effectively with their coworkers.
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Fly320s
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« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2020, 04:53:33 AM »

Everyone seems to be missing the very important point that many employers will fire you if your actions, while not rising to a criminal nature, bring disrepute to the company and bring into question your ability to be a representative of the company and to be an effective member of the team.

I agree that companies should have that right/authority.

What I want to know/define is, "When does my professional life end and my personal life begin?"   At what point can I let down my guard and not have to worry about being fired for something I did on my own time?
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DittoHead
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« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2020, 05:25:58 AM »

What I want to know/define is, "When does my professional life end and my personal life begin?"   At what point can I let down my guard and not have to worry about being fired for something I did on my own time?

You would have to ask your employer that, right? They make that decision and if you're not happy with (or don't believe) their answer then you may not want to work for them.
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MechAg94
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« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2020, 05:33:26 AM »

I agree that companies should have that right/authority.

What I want to know/define is, "When does my professional life end and my personal life begin?"   At what point can I let down my guard and not have to worry about being fired for something I did on my own time?
If you think about something like a small town community, there is little separation.  People you see in your personal life might be the same ones you see in your professional life.  I think the idea there is complete separation is a product of big city anonymity.  It has always been the case that you need to control your behavior in public.  

I don't know if the woman deserved to get fired, but I have to wonder if what she did on that video reflects on what sort of employee she was.  Instead of just getting upset and walking away, she accused him of assault and called 911 (did she actually call 911 or just say she was going to?).  Her reaction was to lie and try to burn the guy.  Would he have gotten fired if he had been arrested for assault?  You are what you do.
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« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2020, 05:40:21 AM »

I've characterized the incident as Karen vs Karen. Is it really Karen vs George Zimmerman?
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MechAg94
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« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2020, 05:45:58 AM »

I've characterized the incident as Karen vs Karen. Is it really Karen vs George Zimmerman?
Who knows.  I have no idea what sort of person the guy was.  He certainly could have done/said more than he is claiming which may have helped trigger her hysterics.  If she released a statement, I didn't see it. 
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Ben
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« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2020, 06:16:46 AM »

Who knows.  I have no idea what sort of person the guy was.  He certainly could have done/said more than he is claiming which may have helped trigger her hysterics.  If she released a statement, I didn't see it. 

I mentioned in the original thread that I had read where he said (and admitted) to insinuating that the dog treats might be poison or something else bad for the dog (though as far as I know they were in fact treats). That is stupid if true and would help escalate the situation.

I still believe the woman has at least 80% of the blame. Also, like fistful, I think this was a couple of Karens colliding.
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ConstitutionCowboy
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« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2020, 06:59:09 AM »

I agree that companies should have that right/authority.

What I want to know/define is, "When does my professional life end and my personal life begin?"   At what point can I let down my guard and not have to worry about being fired for something I did on my own time?

I don't see a gap between any of it. A person should Follow their moral code and have no doubts. A person's moral code should govern all they do in whatever situation and venue they find themselves.

Woody
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« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2020, 07:06:05 AM »

I mentioned in the original thread that I had read where he said (and admitted) to insinuating that the dog treats might be poison or something else bad for the dog (though as far as I know they were in fact treats). That is stupid if true and would help escalate the situation.

I still believe the woman has at least 80% of the blame. Also, like fistful, I think this was a couple of Karens colliding.

Yeah.

This is a nothing but a pair of idiots colliding.  That's all there is to it.

Why is this national news???  Huh?
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zxcvbob
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« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2020, 07:42:52 AM »

Yeah.

This is a nothing but a pair of idiots colliding.  That's all there is to it.

Why is this national news???  Huh?

Because we are addicted to being outraged.
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2020, 08:59:08 AM »

I've characterized the incident as Karen vs Karen. Is it really Karen vs George Zimmerman?

Not really. GZ followed the person of whom he was suspicious, even after the police told him he didn't need to do that. In this case, the black male Cooper was already where he was, watching birds, and she (the female Cooper, no relation) came along with her dog, merrily ignoring the leash law because she didn't like letting her dog run loose in the area where she is allowed to let her dog run loose. The male Cooper didn't call the cops, the female Cooper called the cops. And lied to them.

Should male Cooper have called the cops rather than talking to her about her violation of the leash law? I see a lot of paradoxical attitudes about that on Internet forums in general. On one hand, people say it's not necessary to call the cops on your neighbors, just ask them nicely to stop doing whatever it is they're doing that's wrong. Then we get incidents like this, and people say it wasn't his job to enforce the leash law. (Just like it wasn't that guy's job to enforce the handicapped parking law.) So ... which is it? Are we supposed to NOT be snitches, and address problems directly? Or are we always supposed to avoid confrontations and call the cops for everything?
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2020, 09:02:08 AM »

I mentioned in the original thread that I had read where he said (and admitted) to insinuating that the dog treats might be poison or something else bad for the dog (though as far as I know they were in fact treats). That is stupid if true and would help escalate the situation.


I didn't read that into his statement at all, although she may have taken it that way. What he has said (after the fact) is that he routinely carries dog treats because he knows that many dog owners don't like having strangers give their dogs treats. I am prepared to accept that statement on its face value, because I have known more than two such dog owners.
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« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2020, 10:11:27 AM »

Not really. GZ followed the person of whom he was suspicious, even after the police told him he didn't need to do that.

The part in bold would appear to be apocryphal.


One could definitely make the case that Zimmerman comes out ahead in comparison. If I remember right, he had already been in contact with police about crimes in his neighborhood. He thought Martin was involved in such, and was following the police dispatcher's guidance and trying to answer her questions. (Or at least I seem to remember it was a her.) Unlike Mr. Cooper, he didn't confront the subject.

Not that I really have it in for Mr. Cooper. Just spitballin'.
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DittoHead
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« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2020, 10:54:24 AM »

The part in bold would appear to be apocryphal.

Seems pretty accurate to me...

Dispatcher: Are you following him?

Zimmerman: Yeah

Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

Zimmerman: Ok
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« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2020, 11:17:04 AM »

Seems pretty accurate to me...
Quote
Dispatcher: Are you following him?

Zimmerman: Yeah

Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

Zimmerman: Ok

And? What happens after that? Hawkmoon said he followed Martin "even after the police told him he didn't need to."
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JN01
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« Reply #42 on: June 02, 2020, 12:24:56 PM »

At that point Zimmerman headed back toward his car.  Then Martin, rather than continuing to his destination, came back to Zimmerman to give him a beat down.

Masaad Ayoob did a complete breakdown of the incident on his Backwoods Home blog. It is also in his book "Deadly Force- Understanding Your Right to Self Defense".  Ayoob was originally supposed to be an expert witness for the defense, but ended up not being used.
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2020, 03:31:50 AM »

"At what point can I let down my guard and not have to worry about being fired for something I did on my own time?"

At the point you're able to make rational, cogent decisions when out and about in public.

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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2020, 09:17:20 AM »

"At what point can I let down my guard and not have to worry about being fired for something I did on my own time?"

At the point you're able to make rational, cogent decisions when out and about in public.


Or maybe when you decide that when there are areas in which you can allow your dog to tun loose, you let your dog run loose in those areas rather than deliberately choosing to let your dog run loose in a leash zone because you don't like the other place.

I think they told us in 7th or 8th grade Social Studies class (what I think they now call "Civics") that society operates more or less on a contractual basis, under which everyone (theoretically) agrees to follow a common set of rules so that everyone knows what to expect.
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« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2020, 02:48:15 PM »

If you don't want your employer (and therefor your employment) impacted by what you do on your personal time, then you don't post who you work for on social media.

And, for the record, I don't have my employer listed on FB precisely because of this, even though Katie said she doesn't care if my internet hi jinks get me in trouble with customers.

I can totally see this being a legitimate reason to fire someone. People have to work with this woman and I'm betting they've seen the video, too. Clients of the business have seen the video and they probably don't want to deal with her. either.

What you do in private can totally impact your employment. Everything from failing to maintain personal hygiene to being a dumbass on a viral video impacts your desirability as an employee.

It all boils down to "don't be an ass" because nobody likes dealing with an ass.

Also, I think an animal cruelty charge wouldn't be out of order. Choking out her dog was where I lost it. I didn't even make it too "African American man" before I wanted to curb stomp that *wow such a strong word to use, check your anger at the door*.
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2020, 03:24:02 AM »

I rarely, if ever, allude to where I work, and especially not the customers I support, in open forums. But, my LinkedIn profile does have my employer listed, so it wouldn't be hard to figure out.

But, even that's not blanket immunity from my actions if something were to go south. My company has some pretty strict social media policies, and if I were to engage in major jackassery online, and it gets back to them, I could be fired.



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« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2020, 06:06:40 AM »

Or maybe when you decide that when there are areas in which you can allow your dog to tun loose, you let your dog run loose in those areas rather than deliberately choosing to let your dog run loose in a leash zone because you don't like the other place.

I think they told us in 7th or 8th grade Social Studies class (what I think they now call "Civics") that society operates more or less on a contractual basis, under which everyone (theoretically) agrees to follow a common set of rules so that everyone knows what to expect.

AKA: There is no freedom without the law.

Woody
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zxcvbob
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« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2020, 11:54:38 AM »

How about this one?  https://nypost.com/2020/06/15/husband-of-lisa-alexander-fired-from-wealth-management-firm/  Fired because your wife is a busybody?  I don't think they've alleged that "Mr Karen" did anything wrong.  What's next?
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MechAg94
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« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2020, 01:19:43 PM »

How about this one?  https://nypost.com/2020/06/15/husband-of-lisa-alexander-fired-from-wealth-management-firm/  Fired because your wife is a busybody?  They don't think they've alleged that "Mr Karen" did anything wrong.  What's next?
The article said he is one taking the video of the original encounter.  So he was sort of involved even if not the person on video.  Since he has a different name I am not certain why it connected back to his company.  I guess people knew him and her.

The question I have is why the felt they need to post the video online.  I can see taking video if you think police need to be called, but why post it?  Also sounds like they had a neighbor who they didn't seem to know or at least recognize.  
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 04:30:51 AM by MechAg94 » Report to moderator   Logged

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