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Author Topic: Karen has been fired  (Read 4066 times)
Hawkmoon
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« on: May 31, 2020, 10:08:52 PM »

The NYC Karen who called the cops when a black bird watcher called her out for letting her dog run loose in an area of Central Park where dogs must be leashed has been terminated.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/26/us/central-park-video-dog-video-african-american-trnd/?hpt=ob_blogfooterold

Turns out the guy isn't just "a" bird watcher, he's a board member of the New York City Audubon Society. Karen is a classic. She approaches him -- he asks her not to approach him -- so she calls the cops and tells them an African American man is threatening her life. Classic. And he has it all on video.
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RoadKingLarry
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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2020, 02:34:13 AM »

Karma has been served.
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zxcvbob
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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2020, 06:04:42 AM »

I don't like people being fired for what they do on their own time while not in any way representing the company.  Even if they are being despicable or embarrassing.  Also the punishment does not fit the crime, especially for the dog.  Ruin her life on social media?  I'm all for that.
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Fly320s
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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2020, 06:17:53 AM »

I don't like people being fired for what they do on their own time while not in any way representing the company.  Even if they are being despicable or embarrassing.  Also the punishment does not fit the crime, especially for the dog.  Ruin her life on social media?  I'm all for that.

I agree with this.
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TommyGunn
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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2020, 06:40:14 AM »

I don't like people being fired for what they do on their own time while not in any way representing the company.  Even if they are being despicable or embarrassing.  Also the punishment does not fit the crime, especially for the dog.  Ruin her life on social media?  I'm all for that.

I agree ..... but in some ways it isn't new.   Many bigger firms traditionally had "morals clauses"   in their employment contracts that provided for possible consequences, even termination, for public actions that painted the company in a bad light.

In today's world with the internet and I phones we are all much more ..... "exposed"  than we were in 1965. Back then this incident could not have been videoed  or reported as efficiently and might have wound up only as a yellowing report in some precinct house in the bowels of the Naked City.  

Today we need to better employ that rarest of talents when in public;  common sense.

The consequences of not doing so will be on the innernetz forever.......
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zxcvbob
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2020, 06:43:29 AM »

I agree ..... but in some ways it isn't new.   Many bigger firms traditionally had "morals clauses"   in their employment contracts that provided for possible consequences, even termination, for public actions that painted the company in a bad light.

In today's world with the internet and I phones we are all much more ..... "exposed"  than we were in 1965. Back then this incident could not have been videoed  or reported as efficiently and might have wound up only as a yellowing report in some precinct house in the bowels of the Naked City.  

Today we need to better employ that rarest of talents when in public;  common sense.

The consequences of not doing so will be on the innernetz forever.......

IIRC, this did not paint the company in a bad light until they virtue signaled themselves into the situation.
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TommyGunn
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2020, 06:49:18 AM »

IIRC, this did not paint the company in a bad light until they virtue signaled themselves into the situation.

Maybe .... maybe not.   I don't think it's really relevant though;  the woman was being an absolute jackwagon about the matter  and I'm not sure how relevant it is just how her employer came to know what happened.  The employer might have found out any number of ways other than what ever way actually happened.
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ConstitutionCowboy
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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2020, 07:07:25 AM »

I think her termination is justified. She obviously has a bit of a character flaw that could show up in her work in ways harmful to her employer or fellow employees regardless of whomever the employer is.  Grumpy Old Man

Woody
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dogmush
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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2020, 07:17:18 AM »

IIRC, this did not paint the company in a bad light until they virtue signaled themselves into the situation.

Ish. The internet  doxxed her pretty quickly and I remember posts pointing out she worked for Franklin Templeton and suggestions that people contact them by like hour 12 of the whole thing.

Well before they made a public statement,  and then fired her.  IIRC she had their name on her public social media, so as soon as her name was known, her employer was dragged into it.

If that's the case they certainly have the right to take actions based on her actions in public.
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2020, 07:18:18 AM »

IIRC, this did not paint the company in a bad light until they virtue signaled themselves into the situation.

Until the company made a big deal about having suspended her, did anyone even know where she worked?

I agree that the punishment is overly severe for the offense. A two-week or so suspension without pay would perhaps have been more appropriate. That said, one might hope that this incident will serve as an object lesson for people who feel entitled and are prone to behaving in an entitled fashion where it isn't appropriate.

But, we might have thought the example of that baseball executive being canned for his remarks would have sent the same message. If it did, the message didn't reach this Karen.
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RoadKingLarry
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« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2020, 07:20:46 AM »

Ish. The internet  doxxed her pretty quickly and I remember posts pointing out she worked for Franklin Templeton and suggestions that people contact them by like hour 12 of the whole thing.

Well before they made a public statement,  and then fired her.  IIRC she had their name on her public social media, so as soon as her name was known, her employer was dragged into it.

If that's the case they certainly have the right to take actions based on her actions in public.

That's why none on my social media info tells people I work for Verizon.
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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2020, 07:59:34 AM »

That's why none on my social media info tells people I work for Verizon.

 laugh
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2020, 08:00:07 AM »

That's why none on my social media info tells people I work for Verizon.

This is (one more reason) why I don't have any "social media" accounts.
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AZRedhawk44
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2020, 08:50:12 AM »

I obfuscate my name on FB, use an email account for social media different than any used for job applications and such, and never list my employer. 
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Fly320s
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« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2020, 12:19:57 PM »

I think her termination is justified. She obviously has a bit of a character flaw that could show up in her work in ways harmful to her employer or fellow employees regardless of whomever the employer is.  Grumpy Old Man

Woody

Some people think being conservative and owning guns is a character flaw.  If it hasn't happened yet, someone will get fired for owning guns.  Will that termination be justified?
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kgbsquirrel
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« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2020, 01:12:40 PM »

Some people think being conservative and owning guns is a character flaw.  If it hasn't happened yet, someone will get fired for owning guns.  Will that termination be justified?

Owning guns is not a demonstration of dishonesty; making a false police report is.  She was fired for demonstrating moral turpitude and criminality. 
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dogmush
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« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2020, 01:16:19 PM »

Strictly speaking making a false police report is a crime.

I think most employers reserve the right to fire employees that are caught on video committing a criminal act.
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« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2020, 01:19:22 PM »

Strictly speaking making a false police report is a crime.

I think most employers reserve the right to fire employees that are caught on video committing a criminal act.

I thought that was understood by everyone in the conversation.
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2020, 01:20:26 PM »

Quote from: Constitution Cowboy
I think her termination is justified. She obviously has a bit of a character flaw that could show up in her work in ways harmful to her employer or fellow employees regardless of whomever the employer is.  Grumpy Old Man

Woody

Some people think being conservative and owning guns is a character flaw.  If it hasn't happened yet, someone will get fired for owning guns.  Will that termination be justified?

That's a valid point.

I had to give Woody's post some thought. How might her sense of entitlement and apparent bias against black people show up in her work? Of course, we don't know what her job is (was) within Franklin Templeton but, without getting into specifics, I considered the following possibility:

Karen makes a mistake -- a mistake that could potentially cost her employer significant $$$. Being entitled, Karen doesn't admit that she made a mistake. In fact, since we saw in the video that she was willing to lie to the police in order to be more assured that they would respond ("There's an African American man here who is threatening me"), is it reasonable to conjecture that she would lie about the mistake to cover her tracks and perhaps save her job? I think so. And she would probably try to pin respnsibility for her mistake on the person least able to defend him/herself.

Of course, that didn't happen (that we know of). Is it right to punish for potential wrongdoing, based entirely on what ifs? Probably not.

On the other hand, we don't know her track record with Franklin Templeton. We don't know if she was a star player in a key role, or if she was a bit player with marginal performance who already had one foot halfway out the door.
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Jim147
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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2020, 02:44:45 PM »

He admitted to saying if you are going to do whatever you want I. Going to do whatever I want and you won't like it . Right before he started filming.
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2020, 03:04:39 PM »

He admitted to saying if you are going to do whatever you want I. Going to do whatever I want and you won't like it . Right before he started filming.

Yes, and right after that he offered her do a doggie treat. When she approached him, he said clearly -- multiple times -- "Please don't come close to me." She was soooooo frightened that she approached him, and she ignored his request that she not come close to him.
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kgbsquirrel
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« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2020, 03:26:34 PM »

Some people think being conservative and owning guns is a character flaw.  If it hasn't happened yet, someone will get fired for owning guns.  Will that termination be justified?


That's a valid point.

I had to give Woody's post some thought. How might her sense of entitlement and apparent bias against black people show up in her work? Of course, we don't know what her job is (was) within Franklin Templeton but, without getting into specifics, I considered the following possibility:

Karen makes a mistake -- a mistake that could potentially cost her employer significant $$$. Being entitled, Karen doesn't admit that she made a mistake. In fact, since we saw in the video that she was willing to lie to the police in order to be more assured that they would respond ("There's an African American man here who is threatening me"), is it reasonable to conjecture that she would lie about the mistake to cover her tracks and perhaps save her job? I think so. And she would probably try to pin respnsibility for her mistake on the person least able to defend him/herself.

Of course, that didn't happen (that we know of). Is it right to punish for potential wrongdoing, based entirely on what ifs? Probably not.

On the other hand, we don't know her track record with Franklin Templeton. We don't know if she was a star player in a key role, or if she was a bit player with marginal performance who already had one foot halfway out the door.

Potential wrong doing?  She perjured herself in an attempt to deprive another person their liberty.  There's plenty demonstrated actual wrongdoing.
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Fly320s
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« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2020, 04:25:11 PM »

Owning guns is not a demonstration of dishonesty; making a false police report is.  She was fired for demonstrating moral turpitude and criminality. 

True.  How about speeding?  That's a crime.  Does every employer reserve the right to fire someone who is guilty of speeding?  If not for speeding, what crime is serious enough?

For the record, she isn't guilty yet.  Not even sure she has been charged.

Also for the record, I think an employer should be able to terminate an employee for any reason at any time (unions, contracts, etc. not included).

The point I'm making here is that we have to draw the line somewhere between personal life and professional life.  If we are happy that this Karen got fired today, then we should be happy that one of us gets fired later.
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« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2020, 04:28:26 PM »

NY is an At Will by contract, probably why she was able to be fired.

Many states are At Will by public policy, if you aren't under a contract you can be fired for anything, piss on the edge of the toilet, manager hates it, see ya buckaroo.

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« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2020, 05:24:25 PM »

Everyone seems to be ignoring the obvious...we have video evidence of her breaking the leashes rule. At the very least I want to see her slapped with the max fine for her dog. I mean racism is bad too but can she at least get a ticket?

I specifically take my kids places where loose dogs are not allowed, but it makes no difference. People have their dogs running loose right in front of the signs like it's their human right.
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