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Author Topic: The Deep State - fact or fiction?  (Read 1644 times)
Ron
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« Reply #50 on: August 21, 2020, 05:16:21 AM »

Former Republican CIA, FBI heads and national security officials to back Biden:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-biden-republicans/former-republican-cia-fbi-heads-and-national-security-officials-to-back-biden-idUSKBN25G2C5

Republican spooks, top cops and national security officials are on record, they actually want Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer to be the ones "running" the country.

First off, do you really think that they believe the Democrat leadership is competent?

Second, do you really think that Joe, Kamala, Nancy and Chuck are going to be doing anything other than taking orders from somebody if Biden wins?
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MechAg94
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« Reply #51 on: August 21, 2020, 08:07:20 AM »

1.  No.  I think Trump is doing something they don't like (or their sponsors don't like).  He is actually seems to be reducing numbers of troops overseas and using a realistic plan for peace in the ME that might actually lead to something.  I think some people stand to lose if that happens. 

2.  I don't know if they are "taking orders", but people that contribute money their way will get them to do what they want. 


The funny part of that letter is the things they listed that they accused Trump of doing looks like a list of things that Democrat administrations (and some or all R's) have been doing for decades. 
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« Reply #52 on: August 21, 2020, 09:11:30 AM »

Former Republican CIA, FBI heads and national security officials to back Biden:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-biden-republicans/former-republican-cia-fbi-heads-and-national-security-officials-to-back-biden-idUSKBN25G2C5

Republican spooks, top cops and national security officials are on record, they actually want Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer to be the ones "running" the country.


Further proof that, as undignified as he is as a human being, and as unprofessional and undiplomatic he is as a President ... Trump must be doing something right because he has all the right people against him.
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lee n. field
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« Reply #53 on: August 21, 2020, 10:52:19 AM »

I wouldn't be surprised if that cabal existed since the advent of agriculture, growing ever more powerful, greedy, and sadistic . . . . .

It's a lot easier to stomach than the thought that "all this" is pretty much just random.  That's a thought that can unravel many a well-reasoned belief.

Large stature humans, with oddly shaped (elongated) skulls, and reddish hair, dating from deep, deep prehistory.  Those skulls, when found archeologically, have unusual features.

Yeah, I used to read the Vault-co blog.
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lee n. field
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« Reply #54 on: August 21, 2020, 10:55:44 AM »

I might be reading Ron's posts wrong, so apologies if so. It sounds like he's saying this is a SPECTRE level intricate conspiracy.

I never saw that. To me, it was more of, if you're going to label it something, "Saul Alinsky-ism". A lot of people hired who believe in the Saul Alinsky method of "means justify ends" regardless of any oath of office they took. As I said, R administrations generally cut government, so you don't see any "Ayn Rand" cabals.

 

Oh, you so funny.  R.s are just less relentless and focused.  Good old boy graft.

Quote
If I use "deep state" around here, this is what I mean by it. Not SPECTRE or the Illuminati.

Amazing how quickly, anymore, we get to trying to suss out conspiracies.

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lee n. field
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« Reply #55 on: August 21, 2020, 11:08:41 AM »

I believe it exists, and I believe that it is nearly all-powerful. To me, the "deep state" is the entrenched bureaucracy that exists from the lowest levels of civil service employees up to the highest level immediately beneath the political appointee level -- the career bureaucrats. They are the people who know how to get things done in the swamp, and they are also the people who know how to delay, obfuscate, and derail anything that an administration wants done but they (the deep state operators) don't agree with.

One example:

Many years ago, as a practicing architect I had a small contract with a small public housing authority. The project was to be funded by HUD, so I was asked to sign a HUD contract. The contract required that I carry professional liability insurance. The contract also included thirteen (13) specific requirements that were specifically and explicitly excluded from coverage under standard architect and engineer professional liability insurance.

.....


This kind of stuff is why I'm tending to "indifferent" in the current societal churn.  The antifas or whoever they are, are a mob.  I don't want them to win.  But, the system as it is, isn't really just either, just less violent.

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Ben
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« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2020, 11:23:58 AM »



Oh, you so funny.  R.s are just less relentless and focused.  Good old boy graft.


I should have been more precise and said they generally cut offices or freeze FTEs, thus lowering the number of feds hired during R administrations. Certainly their ability to grow debt by spending money elsewhere is on par with dems.
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MechAg94
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« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2020, 02:56:14 PM »

I should have been more precise and said they generally cut offices or freeze FTEs, thus lowering the number of feds hired during R administrations. Certainly their ability to grow debt by spending money elsewhere is on par with dems.

There are a few R's I like, but many are just BigGov authoritarians who happen to not be leftists.
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« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2020, 05:05:52 PM »

Democrat: international socialist
Republican: national socialist

That is the only difference.
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Ron
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« Reply #59 on: August 30, 2020, 11:54:45 AM »

https://amgreatness.com/2020/08/28/a-tyranny-perpetual-and-universal/

Quote
But the experience of Trump’s first term reveals how weak the presidency really is—not just constitutionally and historically, but, above all, currently. We know the enumerated powers the president is supposed to have, and also those the other branches of government are supposed to have, and not have. The Constitution and other fundamental charters of our liberties—the “parchment”—spell all that out. We also know what the “org chart” of the federal government looks like on paper: a “unitary executive” with an alphabet soup of agencies reporting to the president and therefore, in theory, responsive to his directives.

But the reality, by now, should be obvious to everyone. Our government in no way functions according to the elevated words on the parchment, and President Trump does not control the executive branch. I say this not to disparage the president but only to state a plain fact. No doubt, he has done his best. I doubt that anyone else could have done better. But while facing a near-universal rebellion from every power center in our society, emphatically including the agencies he was elected to lead, naturally he has found it very difficult to make the federal bureaucracy do what he tells it to do.

That difficulty has astonished even me. I worked in the federal bureaucracy for the first four years of the first George W. Bush Administration. I saw from the inside how the permanent government or administrative state or “deep state” or whatever you want to call it undermined a president with whom they mostly agreed. I knew in advance that, were Donald Trump to win the 2016 election, the effort to undercut him from within would dwarf what happened to Bush. For unlike the 43rd president, who merely held a few opinions unpopular with the deep state, the 45th ran on a program of almost complete repudiation of ruling class dogma and practice.

And yet I vastly underestimated how bad the “resistance” would be. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine that federal intelligence and law enforcement agencies would try to frame the president with a phony “crime,” launch a pointless two-year investigation over a fraud, then impeach him over the timing of foreign aid payments, all the while lying daily to the American public.

I also saw, again, the beast from the inside during my brief tenure in President Trump’s White House. Given classification and nondisclosure requirements, I can’t say much about that. But I can say this: if anything changed from my time in the Bush Administration, it is that the deep state is vastly more powerful today than it was then, and vastly more willing to use its power—overtly—to flout, undermine, circumvent, and disobey presidential orders. Even, in many cases, to do the precise opposite of what they’ve been ordered.
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kgbsquirrel
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« Reply #60 on: August 30, 2020, 04:19:27 PM »


Good read.
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Ron
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« Reply #61 on: September 06, 2020, 07:13:19 AM »

Anton again. I hope he is wrong otherwise we really are f'ed.

Quote
As if 2020 were not insane enough already, we now have Democrats and their ruling class masters openly talking about staging a coup. You might have missed it, what with the riots, lockdowns and other daily mayhem we’re forced to endure in this, the most wretched year of my lifetime. But it’s happening.

It started with the military brass quietly indicating that the troops should not follow a presidential order. They were bolstered by many former generals—including President Trump’s own first Secretary of Defense—who stated openly what the brass would only hint at. Then, as nationwide riots really got rolling in early June, the sitting Secretary of Defense himself all but publicly told the president not to invoke the Insurrection Act. His implicit message was: “Mr. President, don’t tell us to do that, because we won’t, and you know what happens after that.”

All this enthused Joe Biden, who threw subtlety to the winds. The former United States Senator (for 26 years) and Vice President (for eight) has not once, not twice, but thrice confidently asserted that the military will “escort [Trump] from the White House with great dispatch” should the president refuse to leave. Another former Vice President, Al Gore, publicly agreed.

https://americanmind.org/essays/the-coming-coup/?fbclid=IwAR2r9CZqinaSJlrCqSbbR0b-53Ryvov6LNscDMkE80sga38Xj1oR53wXcg4

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MechAg94
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« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2020, 08:13:32 AM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNo4YbugnWk
The Verdict with Ted Cruz.

At one point in this, Ted Cruz talked about the election process if the electoral college cannot come to a decision.  The decision does go to the House, but he said every state has one vote and R's have a slight majority though a couple states are tied.  

He did mention what would happen if the House refuses to hold a vote.  Some democrats think that after January, the President and VP would be out of office and it would fall to the succession plan.  He said it was new territory.  I imagine the SC was be involved before that point.  Of course, if the R's win back the House, the new Congress is sworn in before the Presidential Inauguration.   
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MechAg94
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« Reply #63 on: September 06, 2020, 08:18:56 AM »

The story I heard on the Insurrection Act was the President was advised not to declare that in order to stop the rioting.  They didn't want to send federal troops in to shut down the rioting.  I would say the people saying it would be bad press are likely correct. 
What I heard was the Feds have deputized local/state police in some areas and Federal Prosecutors are taking over the prosecution of known rioters. 

 Not sure if news sites are mentioning it. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eem98To347c
Antifa Puts Out ALERT As FBI Starts Rounding Them Up One By One, Trump is WINNING
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« Reply #64 on: September 20, 2020, 12:18:44 PM »

And this on Twitter today:




When the 4chan moderators ban your content on morality grounds, it's really time to take a look at yourself.

Ya think? I just love that people who defend Netflix are asking anti-Cuties commenters, "Have you seen it?" So now you must watch child pron in order to denounce something as child pron.
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« Reply #65 on: September 20, 2020, 01:02:08 PM »

Ben Shapiro gave a pretty balanced review of it. On the one hand he said it legitimately contained a message against the premature sexualization of girls, but presented it in a way that reveled in it.

Sounds like a reasonable perspective, and good enough to save me from having to watch it myself.
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Ron
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« Reply #66 on: September 21, 2020, 04:22:26 AM »

Some things once seen cannot be unseen.

The medium is the message, not the story line.

Instead of revulsion at the thought of watching borderline "soft" child pornography it now becomes an artistic expression and the narrative isn't that this is an outrage but that that it is just another point of view and needs to be discussed further.

Paging Hegel, paging Cthulhu ...


 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 06:02:23 AM by Ron » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2020, 06:10:01 PM »

Some things once seen cannot be unseen.

The medium is the message, not the story line.

Instead of revulsion at the thought of watching borderline "soft" child pornography it now becomes an artistic expression and the narrative isn't that this is an outrage but that that it is just another point of view and needs to be discussed further.

Paging Hegel, paging Cthulhu ...

Pretty much. I know there are cops and judges and magistrates whose job it is to look at chomo pron so they can convict the creeps. I don't insist on reviewing all of the evidence. In the same way, I'll trust the people who are reporting on this movie. Then again, I'm pretty sure no one of any age should be doing that stuff or dressing that way in public, so...
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