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Ben
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« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2020, 08:42:35 AM »

All I have to say is that when the Portland Mayor demands that Trump cough up Federal funds to repair damage to the city, Trump actually sends a tweet that says, "Stick it up your ass, you hippie buffoon!"

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2020/07/17/portland-ore-mayor-ted-wheeler-is-aware-undesirable-people-are-in-his-city-and-wishes-theyd-leave-dhs-leadership/
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MechAg94
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« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2020, 08:55:41 AM »

I'm increasingly not OK with this. I think both the federal and state governments have been overstepping their bounds for a very long time. Protesting and rioting are two different things.  But policing and extra-judicial abduction are also two different things.

To answer your second question, in many places the damage is done and it is too late, regardless of who started the cycle of disrespect, to expect friendly relations between the police and the populace.  There are too many blatantly obvious differences between what the police can get away with and the behaviors the rest of us are allowed to engage in.  There has been too much "us vs. them" for too long. 

On the last, the only answer I can come up with is the govt started it and by extension the busy body voters who wanted a law against everything they didn't like.  Whether it be using police as petty tax/fee collectors/enforcers or the War on Drugs, police were asked to enforce all sorts of things and allowed to intrude more in people's lives to do it.  Then we have/had stupid judges who have turned the Bill of Rights into a giant gray area where nothing is straightforward or simple. 

Fixing it would require a significant change in legislative action and judicial oversight.  I don't see that happening quickly.
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fifth_column
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« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2020, 09:17:08 AM »

Apparently, I'm more disturbed by the idea of federal authorities in rental cars making arrests than I originally thought.  It occurs to me that if we're to assume the feds were acting lawfully and that the protester was actually a hardened criminal deserving of incarceration, then it's just as easy to assume that since antifa has been declared a terrorist organization, and since membership can be implied by virtue of being in the crowd, it's just as likely the guy in that snippet of a video is being treated as an enemy combatant and has been essentially disappeared.  The federal government has done it many times, and it's been documented.  It's become nearly impossible for me to give the state the benefit of the doubt anymore. 
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RoadKingLarry
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« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2020, 09:41:39 AM »

With the way the MSM distorts reality it would not surprise me to find out that the animal seed/feed they were throwing at police had already been processed by the animals.
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« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2020, 02:39:41 PM »

And now for something completely different:  (NSFW)

https://www.rt.com/usa/495163-naked-protester-portland-police/amp/?fbclid=IwAR3zAjugSogCzSlUJ8Mk31sYsc2X8rACfh3MZjahHs49f4A_AwT5s_9FFdo
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Ron
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« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2020, 07:21:29 AM »

Well yes, I was referring to the footage as presented.  Regardless of words said that we're not aware of, this activity does not bode well for the "No, really, we're not living in a police state" argument . . .

Representative government, rule of law and inalienable rights were useful fictions to keep a reasonably well educated populace mollified.

Our hidden rulers seem less inclined these days to exert any energy on maintaining that facade. They've imported enough folks from egalitarian tyrannies and converged our educational system enough that the people now demand egalitarian tyranny as their primary right.

We're all fascists and communists now, some nationalist, some globalist.



 

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« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2020, 09:02:55 AM »


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RocketMan
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« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2020, 12:33:48 PM »

FYI:  The twit that the feds dragged away in their soccer-mom-mobile was released shortly thereafter when it was determined he wasn't the twit they were seeking.  Apparently the feds have some specific folks they are looking for.
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« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2020, 12:39:50 PM »

FYI:  The twit that the feds dragged away in their soccer-mom-mobile was released shortly thereafter when it was determined he wasn't the twit they were seeking.  Apparently the feds have some specific folks they are looking for.

Honestly not sure if that's better or worse...
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RocketMan
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« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2020, 12:53:02 PM »

Honestly not sure if that's better or worse...

It would be nice if they could round up and charge some of the organizers and instigators of the riots and lay some federal charges on them.  I doubt it would do much to quiet the rioting, but to hear about some convictions would be highly satisfying.
Portland is my home town, born there many years ago.  It saddens me greatly to see it devolve into a left wing-led cesspool when it was such a nice place to grow up and live in years back.
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“Don’t be so open-minded that your brains fall out.” - G.K. Chesterton

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

How many Democrats does it take to fix a problem?  No one knows because it's never happened.
RocketMan
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« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2020, 05:18:18 AM »

It looks like the "Silent Majority" are finally making themselves heard in Portland.  Unfortunately, they are coming out on the side of the, er... "protesters".

https://www.foxnews.com/us/thousands-march-protest-downtown-portland

edited for spelling
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 03:35:15 PM by RocketMan » Report to moderator   Logged

“Don’t be so open-minded that your brains fall out.” - G.K. Chesterton

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

How many Democrats does it take to fix a problem?  No one knows because it's never happened.
Ben
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« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2020, 05:22:31 AM »

It looks like the "Silent Majority" are finally making themselves heard in Portland.  Unfortunately, they are coming out on the side of the, er... "protestors".

https://www.foxnews.com/us/thousands-march-protest-downtown-portland

I don't know that they're part of the silent majority. They mostly remind me of the older, wealthy, naive liberals that I used to see in Santa Barbara - saving the world with signs in front of the courthouse, then hitting Starbucks and the Trader Joe's to talk about the great work they've done for their fellow travelers.
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« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2020, 05:26:44 AM »

Cognitive dissonance. From RocketMan's link:

Quote
"I found it wrong that the federal government was trying to come here and prevent people from protesting and exercising their right to assemble and protest," mom Megan Kelly told Portland's KATU.

But are the feds preventing people from peacefully assembling and protesting?

Quote
The city's Democrat leadership has been criticized for its response. “The elected officials have condoned the destruction and chaos” in the city, said Daryl Turner, the head of the Portland Police Association, on Sunday.

...

Demonstrators said they would remain nonviolent and protest as long as federal officers are in the city, the station reported.

Just before midnight, the unrest began to swell as protesters were seen knocking and coming close to the courthouse building, which resulted in federal officers setting off smoke gas, according to The Oregonian.

Some people started to tear off the plywood in front of the building around 12:20 a.m., which prompted police to throw devices that emitted smoke and an orange substance into the air.

...

Police would later acknowledge that federal law enforcement deployed CS gas, also known as tear gas, and advised people to avoid the area of SW 3rd and SW Main. They reported people were throwing projectiles and some were armed with clubs, hammers, and other weapons.

But I'm sure those were peaceful, non-violent clubs, hammers, and other weapons.
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« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2020, 05:36:52 AM »

Quote
Police would later acknowledge that federal law enforcement deployed CS gas, also known as tear gas, and advised people to avoid the area of SW 3rd and SW Main. They reported people were throwing projectiles and some were armed with clubs, hammers, and other weapons.

But I'm sure those were peaceful, non-violent clubs, hammers, and other weapons.

No MAGA hats means they're thrown with love and tolerance.
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dogmush
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« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2020, 06:11:33 AM »

While I acknowledge Ben's points about the Federal stuff belonging to all of us not just Portland (from reply 21) I gotta kind of wonder if it wouldn't be better to just let the Portlanders burn Portland down, and let Oregon deal with the aftermath.  Not EVERYTHING needs to be a federal problem, and in the grand scheme of federal dollars a couple buildings is pretty small change.
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RocketMan
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« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2020, 06:18:22 AM »

I've thought the same thing, just let Portland burn, let the Idiocracy that lives there deal with the aftermath. Unfortunately, I have family, including three of my kids, that live in communities surrounding Portland. This stuff could begin to affect them in a bad way at some point.

And regarding the "Silent Majority", I've never been convinced that they really exist as a cohesive group. In my opinion, they are mostly just low information, uninvolved folks that vote their feelings.
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“Don’t be so open-minded that your brains fall out.” - G.K. Chesterton

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

How many Democrats does it take to fix a problem?  No one knows because it's never happened.
Ben
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« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2020, 06:20:38 AM »

While I acknowledge Ben's points about the Federal stuff belonging to all of us not just Portland (from reply 21) I gotta kind of wonder if it wouldn't be better to just let the Portlanders burn Portland down, and let Oregon deal with the aftermath.  Not EVERYTHING needs to be a federal problem, and in the grand scheme of federal dollars a couple buildings is pretty small change.

Actually on one hand I 100% agree with you. I'd love to see the feds say, "You want it, you got it" and leave Portland, let the buildings burn, and never return to them. On the other hand, there's no way that will happen without the result being that Portland/Oregon gets a bajillion of our tax dollars to rebuild.

The part of me that says people need to learn their lessons without getting bailed out would very much like to see Portland left in ruins (apologies to our members or their families with Portland connections - if it helps, I have always wished the same for CA), but the part of me that knows I'll end up paying for it would just as soon see the fed cops bash some heads to divert the rioters from fed buildings to city of Portland buildings. Though we saw the one time the Mayor got tough is when the protestors were on their way to his house.

I am still hoping that Trump tells Oregon to get bent when they demand hundreds of millions of federal dollars in relief.
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makattak
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« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2020, 08:29:08 AM »

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2020/07/21/fed-goons-out-of-pdx-scenes-from-last-nights-rioting-in-portland-video/

More scenes from last night's riot.

In the reporting, they said the Fed's rushed out and attacked the rioters attempting to break in.

I had to do some digging, but I actually found some footage of that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6XicBBN1l4&t=2m26s
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« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2020, 08:58:36 AM »

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2020/07/21/fed-goons-out-of-pdx-scenes-from-last-nights-rioting-in-portland-video/

More scenes from last night's riot.

In the reporting, they said the Fed's rushed out and attacked the rioters attempting to break in.

I had to do some digging, but I actually found some footage of that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6XicBBN1l4&t=2m26s

LOL 
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MechAg94
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« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2020, 09:00:56 AM »

FYI:  The twit that the feds dragged away in their soccer-mom-mobile was released shortly thereafter when it was determined he wasn't the twit they were seeking.  Apparently the feds have some specific folks they are looking for.
From some additional stuff I have seen, the Feds in camo were wearing patches identifying their department and badge numbers.  While they were in camo, they were not unidentified.
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RocketMan
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« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2020, 09:21:52 AM »

From some additional stuff I have seen, the Feds in camo were wearing patches identifying their department and badge numbers.  While they were in camo, they were not unidentified.

I think that's always been the case.  They just haven't been very vocal when they haul off a miscreant.  (Which is cool in a way.    Evil )
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“Don’t be so open-minded that your brains fall out.” - G.K. Chesterton

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

How many Democrats does it take to fix a problem?  No one knows because it's never happened.
Mike Irwin
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« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2020, 09:35:27 AM »

A few of my more... liberal... Facebook friends (including a friend from college) are losing their minds over "Trump's Secret Police."

 Face Palm!
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« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2020, 09:40:21 AM »

A few of my more... liberal... Facebook friends (including a friend from college) are losing their minds over "Trump's Secret Police."

 Face Palm!

All the cool fascist have them
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2020, 09:44:36 AM »

Of course, they're not saying word one about the use of Bill and Janet's "secret police" in Waco, Texas...
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WLJ
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« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2020, 10:04:23 AM »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eli%C3%A1n_Gonz%C3%A1lez

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