Author Topic: History repeating itself  (Read 896 times)

WLJ

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History repeating itself
« on: August 17, 2020, 04:14:20 PM »
If you do nothing else just listen to the 18 points in the first few minutes, most should sound very familiar

Friedrich Kellner - A Social Democrat Living in the Third Reich
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP0WxmqDg5s
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Nick1911

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Re: History repeating itself
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2020, 04:55:26 PM »
Eh?  Honestly, seems like a real stretch.

I started to type up my reaction on these, but instead I think I'll call out your drive-by posting, and ask you to substantiate it.

Which of these particular points do you think are applicable to current day events, and how so?

Ron

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Re: History repeating itself
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2020, 05:21:32 PM »
At least a third of them seem to be very applicable.

Of course we're both bureaucratic tyrannies running under a fascist model of the state and corporations joining hands in managing society...for the benefit of the state and corporations.

So some similarities are to be expected.  
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

WLJ

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Re: History repeating itself
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2020, 05:24:56 PM »
2. Splitting the people into nonpary members and non-party members

Reminds me of how the left like to divide everyone into little groups

3. One sided control of public opinion meaning a press with just one voice.

That should speak for itself

4. Suppressing free expression of opinion

Again should speak for itself

5. Protecting the old fighters and party members even if they are criminals.

Don't tell me this doesn't sound familar

6. Persecuting decent citizens only because they once had another opinion

Reminds of how a different opinion is considered hate speech

7. Persecution and extermination of the Jews

Straight white Christen males are the new Jew minus the extermination part, so far.

8. Disrespect for people's religious convictions

Should speak for it self. Bake the cake.

9. Continuously changing the law: new laws in great volumes, thousands regulation Even specialist can no longer keep up

Whats the dems answer to everything? New regs and laws

10. Unbelievable over-organization in the nation etc...

Again the dems

11. Dreadfully unproductive offices and a bloated bureaucracy

Washington in a nutshell

12. Irresponsible expenditures without taking income into consideration

Modern US govt in general

13. Protecting the worst people in the state

Reminds me of how releasing criminals en mass seems to be the norn now.

14. Tax burden without end

cough, dems, cough


15. Mendicants in bulk

How many new governmental progressive groups do we have now?

16. Easy sinecures and benefits for party members etc...

Party donors (both sides) sure seems to get tax payer paid stuff and breaks

17 & 18 reminds of how the left/dems expected us to treat Obama

 












« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 05:41:56 PM by WLJ »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

230RN

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Re: History repeating itself
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2020, 05:33:03 PM »
Composed before WLJ's response was posted.  But I'm feeling ballsey, so here goes anyhow.

------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not clear on why (A) you consider comparison to today as a "stretch" and (B)why you are considering this as a drive-by posting...  which, despite the APS rules, is a common but unchallenged practice for some of us.

Perhaps you should start watching at 2:19.   The import and impact of the points kind of depend on one's historical viewpoint.  

I'm also curious as to whether you are posting as a moderator or a non-ranking member.

If the former, ignore this post.  I have discovered that moderators sometimes  use surreptitious methods to "punish" discourage
those with divergent viewpoints.  I will not elaborate on that point.

Terry, 230RN

MechAg94

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Re: History repeating itself
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2020, 05:40:14 PM »
On #7, I don't think there is an substitution just adding more groups to the persecution list.  Many leftists still don't like Jews.
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WLJ

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Re: History repeating itself
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2020, 05:43:21 PM »
On #7, I don't think there is an substitution just adding more groups to the persecution list.  Many leftists still don't like Jews.

Depends on where they are, The USA or Israel,  and who they vote for
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

Nick1911

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Re: History repeating itself
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2020, 06:07:30 PM »
Composed before WLJ's response was posted.  But I'm feeling ballsey, so here goes anyhow.

I'm not clear on why (A) you consider comparison to today as a "stretch" and (B)why you are considering this as a drive-by posting...  which, despite the APS rules, is a common practice for some of us.

Perhaps you should start watching at 2:19.   The import and impact of the points kind of depend on one's historical viewpoint. 

I'm also curious as to whether you are posting as a moderator or a non-ranking member.

If the former, ignore this post.  I have discovered that moderators sometimes  use surreptitious methods to "punish" those with divergent viewpoints.  I will not elaborate on that point.

Terry, 230RN

My reply was as a non-ranking member.  I simply didn't see where the OP was going with this, and he didn't have much context.  I wasn't attempting to use any authority or perceived authority here, but I can see how it would come across that way.  Especially specifically citing the phrase "drive-by posting".  Apologies if that looked like an attempt at moderation vs conversation.

As to why it's a stretch... wow, I'm starting to feel like a centrist around here!

2. Splitting the people into nonpary members and non-party members

Reminds me of how the left like to divide everyone into little groups

Dividing people based on differences between groups is a common political strategy.  However, in the case presented in the video, we're talking about the government in control assessing who's with them, and who's not.  Who's in... and who's out.  I don't see government structures in the US doing this to us.

3. One sided control of public opinion meaning a press with just one voice.

That should speak for itself

Well, again I'm lost.  Our press is not being run or heavily censored by government.  Hell, most of the press is pushing as much negative material as they can about the government.  They certainly aren't being coerced into presenting a particular pro-government viewpoint.

4. Suppressing free expression of opinion

Again should speak for itself

We're having this conversation, aren't we?  People are still free to voice opinions without arrest.  There's certainly some SJW's who will make your life hell for saying certin things, but these are private people, not government actors following policy.


5. Protecting the old fighters and party members even if they are criminals.

Don't tell me this doesn't sound familar

All power structures do this to one extent or another.  Hell, Ford pardoned Nixon.


6. Persecuting decent citizens only because they once had another opinion

Reminds of how a different opinion is considered hate speech

Fair point.

7. Persecution and extermination of the Jews

Straight white christen males are the new Jew minus the extermination part, so far.

Straight white christen males catch all the flack because "punching up" is cool, and straight white christen males by and large will sit and take it.  It's a safe group to poke at without fear or retaliation.  Do you honestly think that extremism exists in a pervasive and structured enough way that government actors will be committing genocide against straight white christen males in the foreseeable future?

8. Disrespect for people's religious convictions

Should speak for it self. Bake the cake.

To what extent is this codified into law?  Agreed that non-governmental social movements are decidedly against religion.

9. Continuously changing the law: new laws in great volumes, thousands regulation Even specialist can no longer keep up

Whats the dems answer to everything? New regs and laws

Is the velocity to the extent that even experts in particular fields can't keep up?  I agree that there's too much regulation, 200,000+ pages of federal codes which we are bound by.  I'm not convinced that this is all the fault of one particular party.


10. Unbelievable over-organization in the nation etc...

Again the dems

As in.... too many federal departments, etc?

11. Dreadfully unproductive offices and a bloated bureaucracy

Washington in a nutshell

Every. Single. Government.  Point to one that doesn't fit this definition.

12. Irresponsible expenditures without taking income into consideration

Modern US govt in general

I don't think this is a modern plague, this has been going on for a very long time.

13. Protecting the worst people in the state

Reminds me of how releasing criminals en mass seems to be the norn now.

Eh, I can see that.  I'd more argue that folks who are rioting and committing crimes are not being held accountable as a matter of policy.

14. Tax burden without end

cough, dems, cough

THAT mess is decidedly bipartisan.

15. Mendicants in bulk

How many new governmental progressive groups do we have now?

No idea, name em?


16. Easy sinecures and benefits for party members etc...

Party donors (both sides) sure seems to get tax payer paid stuff and breaks

Cronyism as a form of corruption is not at all unique to Nazi Germany or the modern US.

17 & 18 reminds of how the left/dems expected us to treat Obama

I think you would find that the left thinks the same of conservatives/Trump.  Our political landscape is very divisive.

Ron

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Re: History repeating itself
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2020, 06:17:45 PM »
"We're having this conversation, aren't we?  People are still free to voice opinions without arrest.  There's certainly some SJW's who will make your life hell for saying certain things, but these are private people, not government actors following policy."

Our press is acting as an adjunct to the Democrat/Republican deep state establishment.

The big social media companies are also acting as an adjunct to the Democrat/Republican deep state establishment.

Backwater blogs, forum boards and the like don't act as the primary source of information like the social media sites do currently.

Actually nearly all large corporations are acting in concert with the establishment to mold public opinion hence my quip about the fascist model.

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

MechAg94

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Re: History repeating itself
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2020, 11:55:42 AM »
One of the things I have thought about is if Hillary would have won in 2016 and was able to appoint leftist judges to fill all the vacancies.  I can easily see a great number of bad things happen with Judicial approval and with the support of the media and big companies like Google.  As mentioned, it would just be basic corruption and cronyism and authoritarian govt.  The Nazis weren't really as unique in what they did as people like to think.  People at the time just couldn't believe that Germany would do it since they were at the height of First World culture in the early 1900's.  Leftists never seem to believe their ideas always end up that way.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge